10 ms·

Reddit successfully pressures Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) to back off support of SOPA

215 points by chaosmachine 15y ago

danso 15y ago
It's not clear that he ever supported SOPA, just that his form letter wasn't explicitly against SOPA when Reddit decided to work against him: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2011/12/reddit-forces-paul-ryan-play-defense-sopa/46782/ http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2011/12/reddit-force...
- DennisP 15y ago
  Targeting an influential rep who's ambivalent is arguably a better strategy than targeting reps who strongly oppose you and probably won't be swayed.
  - 46Bit 15y ago
    This is true. If someone is completely supporting the bill then it's unlikely you could trivially turn them against it unless they both care & haven't understood it. Turning someone who has doubts is far easier because they were waiting for help deciding anyway.
  - mayneack 15y ago
    This is why bills are almost never voted down. One thing that politicians hate doing is switching positions because they can then get attacked on both sides of an issue and as a flip-flopper. In fact, bills rarely get voted down once they are proposed. Congressional leaders rarely force a vote unless they know the bill will pass. The most common way for a bill to die is to just never vote on it. This allows them to not support or oppose something controversial.
  - a_a_r_o_n 15y ago
    It might also play well to the other reps who have not yet committed to either side.
iso8859-1 15y ago
I think sad how much of a popularity contest politics are. He doesn't really respond to the arguments, just uses the boilerplate "freedom" stuff. You can turn that statement right around, and it'd still make sense. I wish politicians would actually have the time and commitment to know what they were legislating. This system is broken. Turned around: > The internet is one of the most magnificent expressions of freedom and free enterprise in history. It should stay that way. In order to do that, we must close those evil sites so that we can have better conditions for the corporations and they will continue to provide jobs and security to our economy.
- ajross 15y ago
  Having politicians who understand the issues you care about is no guarantee that they will work for them. Yes, most of us yearn for a utopia where we're ruled by super-intelligent benevolent overlords. But in the real world, I'll settle for politicians that take popular positions because it's what the voters want. Ryan did the right thing here, regardless of what you think about his understanding of the issue (or about his other politics), and should be commended. We won this little battle. It's a good thing.
  - jjoe 15y ago
    """But in the real world, I'll settle for politicians that take popular positions because it's what the voters want.""" It doesn't always work out best. It becomes a tyranny of the majority. Especially when what's at stake impacts a small group of people (e.g. religious differences, minorities, etc). I'd rather settle for politicians that can think on their own.
    - polyfractal 15y ago
      I don't understand why this comment is being downvoted. He makes a valid argument against the tyranny of the (uninformed) majority. A significant number of Americans thought defaulting on our debt was a good idea and ignored every expert and economist shouting this would be catastrophic. Their argument was simply "we don't believe you" without supporting evidence, and without any desire to listen to counter-arguments. There is plenty of legitimate controversy over monetary policy, but basically everyone agreed defaulting on the debt was not a good idea. I'm not arguing for elitism or benevolent dictatorship, but there are definitely times when "average Joe" has no idea what the fuck he is talking about.
rbanffy 15y ago
Online piracy is not a legitimate problem. It's an unavoidable side-effect of having easy and cheap duplication and transport of digital goods. Industries have to innovate to adapt to new technologies and circumstances.
- jayzee 15y ago
  What if I replaced "Online piracy" with "Gunshot deaths" and "digital goods" by "guns": Gunshot deaths are not a legitimate problem. It's an unavoidable side-effect of having easy and cheap guns.
  - mkr-hn 15y ago
    First you have to show how shooting someone is like copying a file.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
    - jayzee 15y ago
      No. I did not imply that. I am just saying that his logic does not make sense.
      - iamdave 15y ago
        "No. I did not imply that." I think you did the minute you made that analogy.
      - mkr-hn 15y ago
        You did it with a faulty analogy. The analogy compared a permanent physical harm to an indefinite harm. Two things have to be analogous to fit an analogy.
        the-cakeboss 15y ago
        The argument he was responding to was unsound. The parent comment attempted to refute the claim that piracy is a legitimate problem by pointing out the ease at which it is done. Jayzee's analogy was never meant to compare shooting someone with sharing a song in terms of severity. Rather, it was demonstrating how flawed that line of thinking is.
ward 15y ago
Must we have politics on Hacker News... Edit: It always ends up in bickering about viewpoints anyway.
- bh42222 15y ago
  Unlike generic politics posts, this is very narrowly focused, and shows how we, using our tools, can make real and immediate difference in how we are governed. This isn't just "politics", it's practical self-determination.
OstiaAntica 15y ago
Rep. Ryan's statement is significant and helps the cause in both the House and the Senate. Ryan is a widely respected policy leader for Congressional Republicans. It is also a strong stance for him to publicly oppose another Republican's legislation, while the bill is still being considered in committee.
jerfelix 15y ago
This headline is pretty misleading. Ryan never supported SOPA. He came out against it. And this event came after Reddit guys said they should pressure him. And then clueless Reddit guys take credit for successfully pressuring him. I would hope this HN crowd knows about correlation and causation.
- drivebyacct2 15y ago
  >And then clueless Reddit guys take credit for successfully pressuring him. Phew. I was afraid a thread might go by without an opportunity to make sure I feel better that I'm an HNer and not a redditor. Paul Ryan's stance on SOPA was unknown until a candidate came along opposing him. Reddit rallied behind him because Zerban was anti-SOPA. I don't think it's crazy to assume that might have some impact on Ryan's newly announced stance.
- mwsherman 15y ago
  Seconded – I don’t see any evidence that Ryan’s stance has anything to do with Reddit, before or after. Such strange behavior for programmers – accepting an idea with no evidence, and allowing flattery to drown out reason.
  - PakG1 15y ago
    This won't be a popular statement, but I think programmers and engineers in general pat themselves on the back more than they deserve in terms of how logical they are in real life situations.
    - hessenwolf 15y ago
      As compared to whom?
      - moe 15y ago
        Doctors
      - khafra 15y ago
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

215 points by chaosmachine 15y ago

danso 15y ago

It's not clear that he ever supported SOPA, just that his form letter wasn't explicitly against SOPA when Reddit decided to work against him: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2011/12/reddit-forces-paul-ryan-play-defense-sopa/46782/ http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2011/12/reddit-force...

DennisP 15y ago
Targeting an influential rep who's ambivalent is arguably a better strategy than targeting reps who strongly oppose you and probably won't be swayed.
- 46Bit 15y ago
  This is true. If someone is completely supporting the bill then it's unlikely you could trivially turn them against it unless they both care & haven't understood it. Turning someone who has doubts is far easier because they were waiting for help deciding anyway.
- mayneack 15y ago
  This is why bills are almost never voted down. One thing that politicians hate doing is switching positions because they can then get attacked on both sides of an issue and as a flip-flopper. In fact, bills rarely get voted down once they are proposed. Congressional leaders rarely force a vote unless they know the bill will pass. The most common way for a bill to die is to just never vote on it. This allows them to not support or oppose something controversial.
- a_a_r_o_n 15y ago
  It might also play well to the other reps who have not yet committed to either side.

iso8859-1 15y ago

I think sad how much of a popularity contest politics are. He doesn't really respond to the arguments, just uses the boilerplate "freedom" stuff. You can turn that statement right around, and it'd still make sense. I wish politicians would actually have the time and commitment to know what they were legislating. This system is broken. Turned around: > The internet is one of the most magnificent expressions of freedom and free enterprise in history. It should stay that way. In order to do that, we must close those evil sites so that we can have better conditions for the corporations and they will continue to provide jobs and security to our economy.

ajross 15y ago
Having politicians who understand the issues you care about is no guarantee that they will work for them. Yes, most of us yearn for a utopia where we're ruled by super-intelligent benevolent overlords. But in the real world, I'll settle for politicians that take popular positions because it's what the voters want. Ryan did the right thing here, regardless of what you think about his understanding of the issue (or about his other politics), and should be commended. We won this little battle. It's a good thing.
- jjoe 15y ago
  """But in the real world, I'll settle for politicians that take popular positions because it's what the voters want.""" It doesn't always work out best. It becomes a tyranny of the majority. Especially when what's at stake impacts a small group of people (e.g. religious differences, minorities, etc). I'd rather settle for politicians that can think on their own.
  - polyfractal 15y ago
    I don't understand why this comment is being downvoted. He makes a valid argument against the tyranny of the (uninformed) majority. A significant number of Americans thought defaulting on our debt was a good idea and ignored every expert and economist shouting this would be catastrophic. Their argument was simply "we don't believe you" without supporting evidence, and without any desire to listen to counter-arguments. There is plenty of legitimate controversy over monetary policy, but basically everyone agreed defaulting on the debt was not a good idea. I'm not arguing for elitism or benevolent dictatorship, but there are definitely times when "average Joe" has no idea what the fuck he is talking about.

rbanffy 15y ago

Online piracy is not a legitimate problem. It's an unavoidable side-effect of having easy and cheap duplication and transport of digital goods. Industries have to innovate to adapt to new technologies and circumstances.

jayzee 15y ago
What if I replaced "Online piracy" with "Gunshot deaths" and "digital goods" by "guns": Gunshot deaths are not a legitimate problem. It's an unavoidable side-effect of having easy and cheap guns.
- mkr-hn 15y ago
  First you have to show how shooting someone is like copying a file.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - jayzee 15y ago
    No. I did not imply that. I am just saying that his logic does not make sense.
    - iamdave 15y ago
      "No. I did not imply that." I think you did the minute you made that analogy.
    - mkr-hn 15y ago
      You did it with a faulty analogy. The analogy compared a permanent physical harm to an indefinite harm. Two things have to be analogous to fit an analogy.
      - the-cakeboss 15y ago
        The argument he was responding to was unsound. The parent comment attempted to refute the claim that piracy is a legitimate problem by pointing out the ease at which it is done. Jayzee's analogy was never meant to compare shooting someone with sharing a song in terms of severity. Rather, it was demonstrating how flawed that line of thinking is.

ward 15y ago

Must we have politics on Hacker News... Edit: It always ends up in bickering about viewpoints anyway.

bh42222 15y ago
Unlike generic politics posts, this is very narrowly focused, and shows how we, using our tools, can make real and immediate difference in how we are governed. This isn't just "politics", it's practical self-determination.

OstiaAntica 15y ago

Rep. Ryan's statement is significant and helps the cause in both the House and the Senate. Ryan is a widely respected policy leader for Congressional Republicans. It is also a strong stance for him to publicly oppose another Republican's legislation, while the bill is still being considered in committee.

jerfelix 15y ago

This headline is pretty misleading. Ryan never supported SOPA. He came out against it. And this event came after Reddit guys said they should pressure him. And then clueless Reddit guys take credit for successfully pressuring him. I would hope this HN crowd knows about correlation and causation.

drivebyacct2 15y ago
>And then clueless Reddit guys take credit for successfully pressuring him. Phew. I was afraid a thread might go by without an opportunity to make sure I feel better that I'm an HNer and not a redditor. Paul Ryan's stance on SOPA was unknown until a candidate came along opposing him. Reddit rallied behind him because Zerban was anti-SOPA. I don't think it's crazy to assume that might have some impact on Ryan's newly announced stance.
mwsherman 15y ago
Seconded – I don’t see any evidence that Ryan’s stance has anything to do with Reddit, before or after. Such strange behavior for programmers – accepting an idea with no evidence, and allowing flattery to drown out reason.
- PakG1 15y ago
  This won't be a popular statement, but I think programmers and engineers in general pat themselves on the back more than they deserve in terms of how logical they are in real life situations.
  - hessenwolf 15y ago
    As compared to whom?
    - moe 15y ago
      Doctors
    - khafra 15y ago

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]