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I'm starting to think that we, as humans, are collectively brute forcing the world around us. Each of us has the things we see in front of us, the things we thi

I'm starting to think that we, as humans, are collectively brute forcing the world around us. Each of us has the things we see in front of us, the things we think are important, and if they turn out to really be important the solutions we come up with spread. Because each of us has different experiences and perspective, we all explore a different part of the solution space. Of course we think what we're doing is important, that's why we do it. The big problem is that we all deserve to live a good life, even if only some of us are lucky enough to find these difficult to find solutions.

fsociety 4y ago
100%, your comment puts it in really nice words. Plus, the requirements for a good life are so low compared to the lifestyles which the rich lead. It is frustrating that we haven’t got there as a society yet. Imagine a world where you could YOLO into a Ph. D research position, and if you burnt out be able to have a bed, food, clean water and access to medical care. It’s not much but seems utopian compared to the world today.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- reducesuffering 4y ago
  That world does sound nice, but will it work if the same applies to every doctor, farmer, and construction worker? Everything you want provided while your burnt out is because someone else is getting up at 7am everyday for decades.
  - hutzlibu 4y ago
    "Everything you want provided while your burnt out is because someone else is getting up at 7am everyday for decades." That is a hypothesis. So sure, someone needs to get up, so the hot water comes out of the wall, but it is not at all clear that it needs to be always the same guy grinding, while next door someone else is dying of boredom and watching netflix until he passes out. Give him a real chance to qualify and maybe he will be happy to do useful work. Remove the whip of existential threat and maybe he get up on his own again, because he wants to and not because he must. Also there is so much energy spend on fighting for basic ressources, or fighting regulations, or other arbitary constraints, that in theory we could reduce the work needed by a lot. But of course the question is - will society work at all, with the basic competition removed? Will it make population explode, until there are literally no ressources left to share? We don't know, but I am open to try out more experiments in that regard.
    - FanaHOVA 4y ago
      > but it is not at all clear that it needs to be always the same guy grinding, while next door someone else is dying of boredom and watching netflix until he passes out Unemployment is 3.5%
      - serverholic 4y ago
        I’m of the opinion that a large chunk of jobs are made up, pointless BS. They exist because jobs have to exist. Because our society requires us to do SOMETHING so we make up large social structures to prove we have the right to exist.
        whstl 4y ago
        This is not an unpopular opinion and I've also been thinking about it. A lot of people theorize about what's gonna happen if/when we reach very high levels of automation. Who's gonna consume things after the robots take most jobs? UBI is often the answer. I'm pro-UBI, but I'm also of the opinion that we should prepare/self-correct by collectively working much much less.
        hutzlibu 4y ago
        "by collectively working much much less. " Or we can change our definition of what work is. There is work and there are (money paying) jobs. The world is full of problems and full of work. Problems on the planet, problems on the mind, problems on the hearts. And the universe is big and waiting, so I am really not afraid, that robots will steal me a purpose in life.
      - jonsen 4y ago
        The percentage of employed unproductive is way higher.
        FanaHOVA 4y ago
        Surely, but what makes you think they are unhappy with their unproductivity? The OP makes it sound like there's a ton of people who aren't working who'd love to give you free time and do the work for you, but that's clearly not the case.
  - mxkopy 4y ago
    Tragic few are waking up at 7am to provide clean beds, food and water. And if they were able to use that system, there's incentive to maintain it. I feel like so many people who work fast food do so because it literally provides them with food.
    - adave 4y ago
      Yeah all those jobs need to be eliminated so people don't have to do such stuff. Unfortunately in the current society UBI or anything helpful will not happen without a major cultural revolution.
- weakfortress 4y ago
  [dead]
- granshaw 4y ago
  That world exists. It’s called Europe
lp4vn 4y ago
>The big problem is that we all deserve to live a good life, even if only some of us are lucky enough to find these difficult to find solutions. Unfortunately this world you talk about doesn't exist anymore. Now we live in the world where "it is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose".
- kitsunesoba 4y ago
  > "it is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose". I’ve long liked this Picard quote, even though it can be equally discouraging as it can be encouraging, depending on how it’s taken.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  We should make fixing that a priority.
  - DMell 4y ago
    Out of genuine curiosity, what are some areas you think could be improved do you have any examples of people / teams working toward improving them?
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      Social safety nets primarily, along with effective delivery of government and social services, universally available. Vote and or run for office, it’s mostly what will move the needle. You will never get more leverage as an average citizen, and the odds are you will never be wealthy enough to get this leverage with fiat (wealth is a function of opportunity and history, startup failure odds, etc). Social Security keeps almost 22.5 million people out of poverty, for example [1]. Minimum wage increases helps millions of workers at a time. Startups are great to get rich and cash out, but not for the improvements we’re discussing at scale. Arguably, most startups have made things net worse (the gig economy, real estate price inflation, gambling on digital tokens, etc). I’m tangentially fond of several parts of government including functions like the US Digital Service; maybe start there if you’re a technologist. Less policy and politicking, more code, but you’re still getting to wield the resources government has to offer. [1] https://www.cbpp.org/research/social-security/social-security-lifts-more-people-above-the-poverty-line-than-any-other https://www.cbpp.org/research/social-security/social-securit...
randomdata 4y ago
> Of course we think what we're doing is important, that's why we do it. We think it is important... or we think it is fun? I expect a lot of us are, for example, guilty for diving in and creating software (or whatever your craft is) that we think others will like/pay for, but don't actually ever stop to talk to people to see if that's the case because collecting data isn't nearly as enjoyable. Maybe you will get lucky and there will be interested parties aligning around your random guess. But more likely nobody will care and you'll go back to the drawing board to commit the same mistake again and again.
luckylion 4y ago
I disagree. A small subset of us sees things around them and says "I'll come up with a solution for that". Some of them work on problems that aren't really problems for most of us. Others work on problems everybody would love a solution for and fail. Neither of them are likely to not have a good life, because we extremely reward the successful search, but we also reward the search if it wasn't successful. Founders who ran companies don't transition to the gutter when they fail, they transition to a senior project management role where their skills are useful. We don't reward hedonism, not even trying to solve any problem and avoiding the search for solutions. I haven't heard an argument why we should, why individuals not trying to contribute at all is desirable to a society.

fsociety 4y ago

100%, your comment puts it in really nice words. Plus, the requirements for a good life are so low compared to the lifestyles which the rich lead. It is frustrating that we haven’t got there as a society yet. Imagine a world where you could YOLO into a Ph. D research position, and if you burnt out be able to have a bed, food, clean water and access to medical care. It’s not much but seems utopian compared to the world today.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
reducesuffering 4y ago
That world does sound nice, but will it work if the same applies to every doctor, farmer, and construction worker? Everything you want provided while your burnt out is because someone else is getting up at 7am everyday for decades.
- hutzlibu 4y ago
  "Everything you want provided while your burnt out is because someone else is getting up at 7am everyday for decades." That is a hypothesis. So sure, someone needs to get up, so the hot water comes out of the wall, but it is not at all clear that it needs to be always the same guy grinding, while next door someone else is dying of boredom and watching netflix until he passes out. Give him a real chance to qualify and maybe he will be happy to do useful work. Remove the whip of existential threat and maybe he get up on his own again, because he wants to and not because he must. Also there is so much energy spend on fighting for basic ressources, or fighting regulations, or other arbitary constraints, that in theory we could reduce the work needed by a lot. But of course the question is - will society work at all, with the basic competition removed? Will it make population explode, until there are literally no ressources left to share? We don't know, but I am open to try out more experiments in that regard.
  - FanaHOVA 4y ago
    > but it is not at all clear that it needs to be always the same guy grinding, while next door someone else is dying of boredom and watching netflix until he passes out Unemployment is 3.5%
    - serverholic 4y ago
      I’m of the opinion that a large chunk of jobs are made up, pointless BS. They exist because jobs have to exist. Because our society requires us to do SOMETHING so we make up large social structures to prove we have the right to exist.
      - whstl 4y ago
        This is not an unpopular opinion and I've also been thinking about it. A lot of people theorize about what's gonna happen if/when we reach very high levels of automation. Who's gonna consume things after the robots take most jobs? UBI is often the answer. I'm pro-UBI, but I'm also of the opinion that we should prepare/self-correct by collectively working much much less.
        hutzlibu 4y ago
        "by collectively working much much less. " Or we can change our definition of what work is. There is work and there are (money paying) jobs. The world is full of problems and full of work. Problems on the planet, problems on the mind, problems on the hearts. And the universe is big and waiting, so I am really not afraid, that robots will steal me a purpose in life.
    - jonsen 4y ago
      The percentage of employed unproductive is way higher.
      - FanaHOVA 4y ago
        Surely, but what makes you think they are unhappy with their unproductivity? The OP makes it sound like there's a ton of people who aren't working who'd love to give you free time and do the work for you, but that's clearly not the case.
- mxkopy 4y ago
  Tragic few are waking up at 7am to provide clean beds, food and water. And if they were able to use that system, there's incentive to maintain it. I feel like so many people who work fast food do so because it literally provides them with food.
  - adave 4y ago
    Yeah all those jobs need to be eliminated so people don't have to do such stuff. Unfortunately in the current society UBI or anything helpful will not happen without a major cultural revolution.
weakfortress 4y ago
[dead]
granshaw 4y ago
That world exists. It’s called Europe

lp4vn 4y ago

>The big problem is that we all deserve to live a good life, even if only some of us are lucky enough to find these difficult to find solutions. Unfortunately this world you talk about doesn't exist anymore. Now we live in the world where "it is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose".

kitsunesoba 4y ago
> "it is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose". I’ve long liked this Picard quote, even though it can be equally discouraging as it can be encouraging, depending on how it’s taken.
toomuchtodo 4y ago
We should make fixing that a priority.
- DMell 4y ago
  Out of genuine curiosity, what are some areas you think could be improved do you have any examples of people / teams working toward improving them?
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    Social safety nets primarily, along with effective delivery of government and social services, universally available. Vote and or run for office, it’s mostly what will move the needle. You will never get more leverage as an average citizen, and the odds are you will never be wealthy enough to get this leverage with fiat (wealth is a function of opportunity and history, startup failure odds, etc). Social Security keeps almost 22.5 million people out of poverty, for example [1]. Minimum wage increases helps millions of workers at a time. Startups are great to get rich and cash out, but not for the improvements we’re discussing at scale. Arguably, most startups have made things net worse (the gig economy, real estate price inflation, gambling on digital tokens, etc). I’m tangentially fond of several parts of government including functions like the US Digital Service; maybe start there if you’re a technologist. Less policy and politicking, more code, but you’re still getting to wield the resources government has to offer. [1] https://www.cbpp.org/research/social-security/social-security-lifts-more-people-above-the-poverty-line-than-any-other https://www.cbpp.org/research/social-security/social-securit...

randomdata 4y ago

> Of course we think what we're doing is important, that's why we do it. We think it is important... or we think it is fun? I expect a lot of us are, for example, guilty for diving in and creating software (or whatever your craft is) that we think others will like/pay for, but don't actually ever stop to talk to people to see if that's the case because collecting data isn't nearly as enjoyable. Maybe you will get lucky and there will be interested parties aligning around your random guess. But more likely nobody will care and you'll go back to the drawing board to commit the same mistake again and again.

luckylion 4y ago

I disagree. A small subset of us sees things around them and says "I'll come up with a solution for that". Some of them work on problems that aren't really problems for most of us. Others work on problems everybody would love a solution for and fail. Neither of them are likely to not have a good life, because we extremely reward the successful search, but we also reward the search if it wasn't successful. Founders who ran companies don't transition to the gutter when they fail, they transition to a senior project management role where their skills are useful. We don't reward hedonism, not even trying to solve any problem and avoiding the search for solutions. I haven't heard an argument why we should, why individuals not trying to contribute at all is desirable to a society.