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I remember moaning about twitter reducing the number of characters people sent, and then yo! came out, and it was down to a single bit of data. That made me th

I remember moaning about twitter reducing the number of characters people sent, and then yo! came out, and it was down to a single bit of data. That made me think 'what would even lower information content messages look like in a social network, perhaps half a bit or even less?'. I figured that a half bit of data would be where a social network sent some sort of hello message automatically with the same frequency the human user sent one manually, so given a message, it'd be 50/50 whether it was sent automatically or manually. Although I got to it theoretically, in the end, I thought it could be pretty useful practically, as a way of sparking conversations again when you haven't spoken to someone in a while, etc. Maybe combined with ChatGPT we could even make those automatic getting-back-in-touch messages indistinguishable from the manual ones.

calt 4y ago
> Half a bit of data I’ve never heard that idea before and I love it.
- scrumper 4y ago
  Half a bit... yeah. I read a good description of a bit (I think in The Information by James Gleick) as "a yes or no answer to a single unambiguous question. I'm misremembering the quote but that's close enough. So half a bit would be like hearing "Umm..." in response to that same question?
  - LodeOfCode 4y ago
    I think "Umm..." would be zero bits, and half a bit would be more like "Probably"/"Probably not"
    - scrumper 4y ago
      "Probably" is more than one bit, not less, no? It conveys both uncertainty and an opinion on the answer. "Is this tree deciduous?" "Yes" - one bit "Is this tree evergreen?" "Probably" - one bit (they don't know), another bit (their guess) But I'm way off any formal understanding of this, and it can be rigorously defined. Meta comment: "half a bit" was clearly a joke, and so was my response; now I'm taking your reply at face value and debating it seriously, while admitting that I haven't got anything close to firm enough ground under me to actually debate it :)
      - LodeOfCode 4y ago
        I meant based on definition of a bit as "a yes or no answer to a single unambiguous question". "Umm..." definitely carries some kind of information, but it doesn't actually help answer the question. Based on the information theoretic definition of entropy we'd need to go from 50:50 to 89% certainty to get half a bit of information, and I'd probably qualify 89% certainty as "probably"
antipotoad 4y ago
Thought-provoking and somehow ingenious, even if something about this makes me deeply uncomfortable. To try to be a little constructive, is a relationship really worth anything if a half-bit is all one can spare for it?
- jstarfish 4y ago
  The half-bit you actually send means more to the recipient than the 160 bytes you don't. I'm more unsettled by the automation part. At least the half-bit received came from someone who consciously thought about you enough to send it. Once you emulate that part, all you have is a MITM initiating conversations between strangers.
rytis 4y ago
> combined with ChatGPT we could even make those automatic getting-back-in-touch messages indistinguishable from the manual ones extending this bit further - we might as well reply with chatGPT. then it's chatGPT all the way down, who needs human interaction when we tick the boxes of "I called them" and "I replied"?.. :)
- MisterPea 4y ago
  This is exactly what happened in the show Silicon Valley with Dinesh and Gilfoyle's AI
- natpalmer1776 4y ago
  In this situation, neither party need be aware that the other party is 'antisocial' in this regard. The way I see it, the following situations apply for a tool that produces communication indistinguishable from the user's own writing (AI)... "AI" for the following cases would be beneficial: Social -> Antisocial Social <- Antisocial "AI" for the following cases would be net neutral: Antisocial -> Antisocial Antisocial <- Antisocial And finally "AI" would be inapplicable (since neither party would use it) in the following cases: Social -> Social Social <- Social In this drastically simplified model, there aren't any cases where the existence of a sufficiently competent AI would be detrimental to any party involved, while still providing value for those who choose to use it.
Kinrany 4y ago
Yo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yo_(app) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yo_(app) To be pedantic, this is not a single bit of data. This is zero bits attached to an event. The event is not discrete however, so I'm not sure what form of information theory would be appropriate to describe it.
harryvederci 4y ago
Maybe you could also "reduce" the bit in a different way, where it would be 50/50 if a message would actually be sent upon clicking the submit/reply button. Like if you'd walk on a noisy street, see someone you know, and greet them half-heartedly and wouldn't really mind if they didn't hear you. Oh man, the thrill of not knowing if this message will actually be sent when I hit the "reply" button!

calt 4y ago

> Half a bit of data I’ve never heard that idea before and I love it.

scrumper 4y ago
Half a bit... yeah. I read a good description of a bit (I think in The Information by James Gleick) as "a yes or no answer to a single unambiguous question. I'm misremembering the quote but that's close enough. So half a bit would be like hearing "Umm..." in response to that same question?
- LodeOfCode 4y ago
  I think "Umm..." would be zero bits, and half a bit would be more like "Probably"/"Probably not"
  - scrumper 4y ago
    "Probably" is more than one bit, not less, no? It conveys both uncertainty and an opinion on the answer. "Is this tree deciduous?" "Yes" - one bit "Is this tree evergreen?" "Probably" - one bit (they don't know), another bit (their guess) But I'm way off any formal understanding of this, and it can be rigorously defined. Meta comment: "half a bit" was clearly a joke, and so was my response; now I'm taking your reply at face value and debating it seriously, while admitting that I haven't got anything close to firm enough ground under me to actually debate it :)
    - LodeOfCode 4y ago
      I meant based on definition of a bit as "a yes or no answer to a single unambiguous question". "Umm..." definitely carries some kind of information, but it doesn't actually help answer the question. Based on the information theoretic definition of entropy we'd need to go from 50:50 to 89% certainty to get half a bit of information, and I'd probably qualify 89% certainty as "probably"

antipotoad 4y ago

Thought-provoking and somehow ingenious, even if something about this makes me deeply uncomfortable. To try to be a little constructive, is a relationship really worth anything if a half-bit is all one can spare for it?

jstarfish 4y ago
The half-bit you actually send means more to the recipient than the 160 bytes you don't. I'm more unsettled by the automation part. At least the half-bit received came from someone who consciously thought about you enough to send it. Once you emulate that part, all you have is a MITM initiating conversations between strangers.

rytis 4y ago

> combined with ChatGPT we could even make those automatic getting-back-in-touch messages indistinguishable from the manual ones extending this bit further - we might as well reply with chatGPT. then it's chatGPT all the way down, who needs human interaction when we tick the boxes of "I called them" and "I replied"?.. :)

MisterPea 4y ago
This is exactly what happened in the show Silicon Valley with Dinesh and Gilfoyle's AI
natpalmer1776 4y ago
In this situation, neither party need be aware that the other party is 'antisocial' in this regard. The way I see it, the following situations apply for a tool that produces communication indistinguishable from the user's own writing (AI)... "AI" for the following cases would be beneficial: Social -> Antisocial Social <- Antisocial "AI" for the following cases would be net neutral: Antisocial -> Antisocial Antisocial <- Antisocial And finally "AI" would be inapplicable (since neither party would use it) in the following cases: Social -> Social Social <- Social In this drastically simplified model, there aren't any cases where the existence of a sufficiently competent AI would be detrimental to any party involved, while still providing value for those who choose to use it.

Kinrany 4y ago

Yo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yo_(app) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yo_(app) To be pedantic, this is not a single bit of data. This is zero bits attached to an event. The event is not discrete however, so I'm not sure what form of information theory would be appropriate to describe it.

harryvederci 4y ago

Maybe you could also "reduce" the bit in a different way, where it would be 50/50 if a message would actually be sent upon clicking the submit/reply button. Like if you'd walk on a noisy street, see someone you know, and greet them half-heartedly and wouldn't really mind if they didn't hear you. Oh man, the thrill of not knowing if this message will actually be sent when I hit the "reply" button!