6 ms·

If experience is exercise, name a more exercised force than the US military.

danans 4y ago
Any number of war-torn countries' militaries would meet that criterion, from Afghanistan to parts of Africa.
kneebonian 4y ago
A fair point, and this is one thing we may have on any other country of similar size and standing, but as we've seen with Russia, that only counts if it's been what you've been working for. Our military is exercised to an extant, but it's also been exercising for fighting asymmetric warfare, and irregular combat, not conventional combat on a battlefield against a comparable enemy. It's like running 3 miles every day in preparation for a marathon, it's something and helps you work out some things, but its going to be very different once the gun fires to start the race.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  One of Russia's big issues I've heard is that they command down from above. They do not have a strong force of decision-making NCOs. This seems plausible given their poor and reactive performance in Ukraine.
  - fsckboy 4y ago
    that's certainly a good explanation for what we see, and I have no counter-evidence, but I'm also suspicious of the matchup with a common cliche/trope: the WWII Nazis and the Imperial Japanese forces were also not able to think for themselves, and how many Star Trek episodes and alien races are foils for the idea that it's the fluid complexity and individualism of "Americans" and "humans" that makes them so adept at succeeding in the shifting tides of battle...
potta_coffee 4y ago
How many of those experienced personnel stick around to pass on their knowledge? Not nearly enough to have an effective military. We'll find out our true readiness when we face a competent enemy.
- mschuster91 4y ago
  And who should that be? Certainly not Russia, they're getting their asses handed to them in Ukraine and won't be a threat for decades to come - Germany post 1945 had an immense amount of industry and other production to help us getting back on our feet rather quickly, but Russia doesn't have anything beyond exporting oil and gas. And not China either, because no matter how unexperienced the US Army is, the Chinese have virtually no experience other than trading shots and fist fights on the Indian border or acting like a school bully in their neighborhood - and most Chinese stuff is based on old Soviet shit (whose "quality" is currently being shown in Ukraine) or stolen Western tech.
  - DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
    > old Soviet shit (whose "quality" is currently being shown in Ukraine) Both sides in Ukraine rely heavily on Soviet equipment. One of the major problems Russia faces in Ukraine is the highly effective air defense infrastructure the Soviet Union built. As for China, it has a mixture of heavily upgraded Soviet equipment (e.g., Flankers with modern sensors, electronics and missiles), and its own indigenous designs (for example, it's the only country other than the US to develop and produce a 5th Generation fighter jet). Given China's proven ability to develop high-tech products and manufacture at scale, why would you doubt that it's capable of producing modern military hardware?
    - lmm 4y ago
      It's hard to produce effective military hardware when your customer is a parade-ground military. The incentives don't line up, which is killer even if you have a strong culture of integrity.
    - mschuster91 4y ago
bobkazamakis 4y ago
The soldiers aren't the avatar; they don't keep state after death. How do you compare the exercise in Vietnam vs the exercise in Afghanistan? Is there a ratio of how badly beaten they are by people shooting back in flip-flops with soviet era AKs?

Any number of war-torn countries' militaries would meet that criterion, from Afghanistan to parts of Africa.

A fair point, and this is one thing we may have on any other country of similar size and standing, but as we've seen with Russia, that only counts if it's been what you've been working for. Our military is exercised to an extant, but it's also been exercising for fighting asymmetric warfare, and irregular combat, not conventional combat on a battlefield against a comparable enemy. It's like running 3 miles every day in preparation for a marathon, it's something and helps you work out some things, but its going to be very different once the gun fires to start the race.

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
One of Russia's big issues I've heard is that they command down from above. They do not have a strong force of decision-making NCOs. This seems plausible given their poor and reactive performance in Ukraine.
- fsckboy 4y ago
  that's certainly a good explanation for what we see, and I have no counter-evidence, but I'm also suspicious of the matchup with a common cliche/trope: the WWII Nazis and the Imperial Japanese forces were also not able to think for themselves, and how many Star Trek episodes and alien races are foils for the idea that it's the fluid complexity and individualism of "Americans" and "humans" that makes them so adept at succeeding in the shifting tides of battle...

potta_coffee 4y ago

How many of those experienced personnel stick around to pass on their knowledge? Not nearly enough to have an effective military. We'll find out our true readiness when we face a competent enemy.

mschuster91 4y ago
And who should that be? Certainly not Russia, they're getting their asses handed to them in Ukraine and won't be a threat for decades to come - Germany post 1945 had an immense amount of industry and other production to help us getting back on our feet rather quickly, but Russia doesn't have anything beyond exporting oil and gas. And not China either, because no matter how unexperienced the US Army is, the Chinese have virtually no experience other than trading shots and fist fights on the Indian border or acting like a school bully in their neighborhood - and most Chinese stuff is based on old Soviet shit (whose "quality" is currently being shown in Ukraine) or stolen Western tech.
- DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
  > old Soviet shit (whose "quality" is currently being shown in Ukraine) Both sides in Ukraine rely heavily on Soviet equipment. One of the major problems Russia faces in Ukraine is the highly effective air defense infrastructure the Soviet Union built. As for China, it has a mixture of heavily upgraded Soviet equipment (e.g., Flankers with modern sensors, electronics and missiles), and its own indigenous designs (for example, it's the only country other than the US to develop and produce a 5th Generation fighter jet). Given China's proven ability to develop high-tech products and manufacture at scale, why would you doubt that it's capable of producing modern military hardware?
  - lmm 4y ago
    It's hard to produce effective military hardware when your customer is a parade-ground military. The incentives don't line up, which is killer even if you have a strong culture of integrity.
  - mschuster91 4y ago

bobkazamakis 4y ago

The soldiers aren't the avatar; they don't keep state after death. How do you compare the exercise in Vietnam vs the exercise in Afghanistan? Is there a ratio of how badly beaten they are by people shooting back in flip-flops with soviet era AKs?