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> Would it be ok for french people to create a french only city/community in France? Is Canada Ukraine? Because Ukrainians are an ethnic minority in Canada...

> Would it be ok for french people to create a french only city/community in France? Is Canada Ukraine? Because Ukrainians are an ethnic minority in Canada... French people in France is a terrible example and you know it. That being said, French people literally have their own province in Canada. Where their language and culture is protected by law! > yes it would be bad if appartments in chinatown explicitly discriminated against non chinese people. Have I got news for you...

benj111 4y ago
Discrimination is discrimination. Positive discrimination is the flip side of negative discrimination. If there's a good argument put forward as to why there needs to be discrimination, I'll listen to it, but 'ethnic minority' isn't an argument. Whites are an ethnic minority in South Africa after all.
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  > Whites are an ethnic minority in South Africa after all. Oh look, another disingenuous comparison of people who colonized every continent versus people who were oppressed for 700 years and had a genocide carried out against them because of a similarity in skin colour. You gonna say Filipinos and Japanese have the same privilege because they're both Asian?
  - benj111 4y ago
    so it isnt about ethnic minorities then? its about privilege. One doesn't stand in for the other, privilege isn't even fixed. In some circumstances even white males are unprivileged. There is nuance, and 'ethic minorities' completely misses the nuance. Also is colonisation the problem? The Chinese went to America of their own will, do they have less moral standing than black Africans? And then we get to native North Americans. At what point did they stop having the privilege Vis a vis the founding fathers? Are the founding fathers morally wrong to have gone to North America or just morally wrong to forcefully move the natives from their lands? Further I'm not Catholic so I don't buy into the white guilt thing based on what some other white people did centuries before, I'm more interested in the here an now. So as I said before. If you want to make a case for why certain groups need protections, why certain groups need positive discrimination to reach parity I'm open to that. But pointing back 700 years and saying ethnic minority isn't an argument.
    - Mikeb85 4y ago
      Ok so are you arguing Ukrainians are privileged? Being the poorest country in Europe, having lost 4 million to genocide in the 1930's, currently having apartment buildings bombed by Russian missiles, and so on? Are you really arguing that Ukrainians are privileged in the same way as those of British descent? And this isn't even about positive discrimination, only about their right to have a small community in a cottage district...
      - benj111 4y ago
        Where did I say that Ukrainians were privileged? Really, where? How is a genocide in the 1930s relevant to now? If you want to make a case as to why they should be allowed a community NOW, then make it. I could point to how my great grandparents how to work down the mines for poor pay and with crap working conditions. Do I deserve special treatment? What about my grandad fighting in the war? What about my great grandmother not having the vote? What about the Romans invading? Shit has happened to many people in the past I'm not accepting moral culpability for what other people did to the Ukrainians in the 1930s. If you want to make a case for why they need help NOW, based on the here and now, I will listen to it. What might have happened to their grandparents is irrelevant. What my grandparents did, (frankly just people with the same colour skin, which brings its own moral questions) is irrelevant. I'm not my grandparents, I'm not morally culpable for what people did before I was even born. And it is about positive discrimination. Unless you think 'privileged whites' should have the right to have their own 'small communities' in a 'cottage district'. And with positive discrimination inherently comes negative discrimination because native North Americans, black people, Jews and 'privileged whites' can't also live in the Ukrainian only community.
      - drran 4y ago
        > having lost 4 million to genocide in the 1930's Officially accepted number by Russian Federation is 7 million[1], but those are adults only. 23 million children are not counted. 1: https://web.archive.org/web/20161210154419/http://duma.consultant.ru/documents/955838?items=1&page=3 https://web.archive.org/web/20161210154419/http://duma.consu...

benj111 4y ago

Discrimination is discrimination. Positive discrimination is the flip side of negative discrimination. If there's a good argument put forward as to why there needs to be discrimination, I'll listen to it, but 'ethnic minority' isn't an argument. Whites are an ethnic minority in South Africa after all.

Mikeb85 4y ago
> Whites are an ethnic minority in South Africa after all. Oh look, another disingenuous comparison of people who colonized every continent versus people who were oppressed for 700 years and had a genocide carried out against them because of a similarity in skin colour. You gonna say Filipinos and Japanese have the same privilege because they're both Asian?
- benj111 4y ago
  so it isnt about ethnic minorities then? its about privilege. One doesn't stand in for the other, privilege isn't even fixed. In some circumstances even white males are unprivileged. There is nuance, and 'ethic minorities' completely misses the nuance. Also is colonisation the problem? The Chinese went to America of their own will, do they have less moral standing than black Africans? And then we get to native North Americans. At what point did they stop having the privilege Vis a vis the founding fathers? Are the founding fathers morally wrong to have gone to North America or just morally wrong to forcefully move the natives from their lands? Further I'm not Catholic so I don't buy into the white guilt thing based on what some other white people did centuries before, I'm more interested in the here an now. So as I said before. If you want to make a case for why certain groups need protections, why certain groups need positive discrimination to reach parity I'm open to that. But pointing back 700 years and saying ethnic minority isn't an argument.
  - Mikeb85 4y ago
    Ok so are you arguing Ukrainians are privileged? Being the poorest country in Europe, having lost 4 million to genocide in the 1930's, currently having apartment buildings bombed by Russian missiles, and so on? Are you really arguing that Ukrainians are privileged in the same way as those of British descent? And this isn't even about positive discrimination, only about their right to have a small community in a cottage district...
    - benj111 4y ago
      Where did I say that Ukrainians were privileged? Really, where? How is a genocide in the 1930s relevant to now? If you want to make a case as to why they should be allowed a community NOW, then make it. I could point to how my great grandparents how to work down the mines for poor pay and with crap working conditions. Do I deserve special treatment? What about my grandad fighting in the war? What about my great grandmother not having the vote? What about the Romans invading? Shit has happened to many people in the past I'm not accepting moral culpability for what other people did to the Ukrainians in the 1930s. If you want to make a case for why they need help NOW, based on the here and now, I will listen to it. What might have happened to their grandparents is irrelevant. What my grandparents did, (frankly just people with the same colour skin, which brings its own moral questions) is irrelevant. I'm not my grandparents, I'm not morally culpable for what people did before I was even born. And it is about positive discrimination. Unless you think 'privileged whites' should have the right to have their own 'small communities' in a 'cottage district'. And with positive discrimination inherently comes negative discrimination because native North Americans, black people, Jews and 'privileged whites' can't also live in the Ukrainian only community.
    - drran 4y ago
      > having lost 4 million to genocide in the 1930's Officially accepted number by Russian Federation is 7 million[1], but those are adults only. 23 million children are not counted. 1: https://web.archive.org/web/20161210154419/http://duma.consultant.ru/documents/955838?items=1&page=3 https://web.archive.org/web/20161210154419/http://duma.consu...