5 ms·

If a merchant, especially in Germany, asks for cash, it's for tax evasion. It's as simple as that. And no, I don't care about your anecdotes how that is not tru

If a merchant, especially in Germany, asks for cash, it's for tax evasion. It's as simple as that. And no, I don't care about your anecdotes how that is not true for your particular case. A small number of exceptions exist of course.

jobs_throwaway 4y ago
Any evidence behind that wild claim?
- lxgr 4y ago
  Just look closely at your next few receipts. Chances are pretty high that some of them will say something like "Testrechnung" (test invoice) or "Keine Rechnung!" (not a receipt). That's the restaurant preparing to not report that income to the tax authorities. Many European countries have made certified/financial cash registers mandatory to combat this, but I believe in Germany they are still optional. The issue is so widespread, I remember hearing that the tax authorities fully expect some industries to only report parts of their income and have made peace with that fact. Mandatory reporting would apparently disrupt the economy too much...
- s9w 4y ago
  [dead]
conanbatt 4y ago
That is the best reason to use cash. Isn't it scary that debit money guarantees you pay more taxes, and it is also used as evidence against you, and to violate your privacy? Cash doesn't have any of those issues, its amazing. That's why governments hate it! (literally!)
- Febra33 4y ago
  Paying your taxes is not an issue. It's called being responsible.
  - conanbatt 4y ago
    That's what the people collecting the taxes want you to believe.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  How are you paying "more taxes"? Those are the types of taxes you're obliged to pay already. Someone needs to pay for schools and roads!
  - conanbatt 4y ago
    Because it doesn't get reported as income, there's no record of it. Thats why central banks are purposefully hindering it - it takes away their capacity to confiscate and control with it. The capacity to not pay taxes is a very important tool of civil disobedience, just like protesting in a public street.
    - jeroenhd 4y ago
      You can still not pay your taxes if you want to use tax fraud as a method of civil disobedience. The government doesn't just grab a random bank account and take money from it. Sure, they'll send collections after you and get the money one way or another, but it's not like a bank account is going to make any difference there. They'll force open your door and sell your stuff if you make it hard enough for them, not sure how that's better.
      - conanbatt 4y ago
        It makes the whole difference. the harder it is to do, the less they do it. If not, why would they care?
        jeroenhd 4y ago
        They care when people owe them money, the same way you care when people owe you money. They prefer not to have to bother to send someone to your house because even though you'll be the one paying for the extra costs, it takes time and effort spent better on other things. I'm sure the "taxation is theft" crazies will have some legal fanfiction about how the government can't just take your money if you only use cash but in practice you're only getting yourself into trouble for no good reason if you try to commit tax fraud.
ch4s3 4y ago
Seems like avoiding credit card fees is a perfectly reasonable explanation, at least in the US where fees exceed 3%. It’s trivial for governments to catch businesses that hold a lot of inventory and are cheating on taxes by more than small amounts.
- flohofwoe 4y ago
  Usually this then says "No card payment under 10 Euros", but still offer card payment for bigger amounts where the fee doesn't matter as much (which IMHO is completely ok).
  - Dries007 4y ago
    This is no longer legal under the PSD2 framework. In Belgium since last summer you have to accept at least 1 form of digital payment now. Some places try to bypass it by only accepting some obscure creditcards.
  - ch4s3 4y ago
    I'm ambivalent, about card vs. no at small businesses. Places that take cards are more likely to get my business, but beyond that I'm not concerned.
- jeltz 4y ago
  Not necessarily. Some small business use their cash to buy stolen goods. For example it used to be quite common for restaurants to buy stolen meat using their cash. You can also pay your staff in cash for some of their hours. Both of these are hard to catch unless you actively have people on location tracking the business. Plus removing cash can make other crimes less appealing (like buying stolen meat).
  - ch4s3 4y ago
    It seems to me like one should police meat theft rather than cash use.
Towaway69 4y ago
Olaf Scholz - the countries leader - is involved in the largest tax evasion scandal in the country - CumEx. He knew about it and did nothing to prevent it. What kind of example does that set for the small business people in the country? The politicians are massively corrupt in Germany (Berlins mayor lost her doctor title because she cheated and then she became mayor). I can understand it when small business operators also want to avoid taxes - as the banks regularly also do.

jobs_throwaway 4y ago

Any evidence behind that wild claim?

lxgr 4y ago
Just look closely at your next few receipts. Chances are pretty high that some of them will say something like "Testrechnung" (test invoice) or "Keine Rechnung!" (not a receipt). That's the restaurant preparing to not report that income to the tax authorities. Many European countries have made certified/financial cash registers mandatory to combat this, but I believe in Germany they are still optional. The issue is so widespread, I remember hearing that the tax authorities fully expect some industries to only report parts of their income and have made peace with that fact. Mandatory reporting would apparently disrupt the economy too much...
s9w 4y ago
[dead]

conanbatt 4y ago

That is the best reason to use cash. Isn't it scary that debit money guarantees you pay more taxes, and it is also used as evidence against you, and to violate your privacy? Cash doesn't have any of those issues, its amazing. That's why governments hate it! (literally!)

Febra33 4y ago
Paying your taxes is not an issue. It's called being responsible.
- conanbatt 4y ago
  That's what the people collecting the taxes want you to believe.
jeroenhd 4y ago
How are you paying "more taxes"? Those are the types of taxes you're obliged to pay already. Someone needs to pay for schools and roads!
- conanbatt 4y ago
  Because it doesn't get reported as income, there's no record of it. Thats why central banks are purposefully hindering it - it takes away their capacity to confiscate and control with it. The capacity to not pay taxes is a very important tool of civil disobedience, just like protesting in a public street.
  - jeroenhd 4y ago
    You can still not pay your taxes if you want to use tax fraud as a method of civil disobedience. The government doesn't just grab a random bank account and take money from it. Sure, they'll send collections after you and get the money one way or another, but it's not like a bank account is going to make any difference there. They'll force open your door and sell your stuff if you make it hard enough for them, not sure how that's better.
    - conanbatt 4y ago
      It makes the whole difference. the harder it is to do, the less they do it. If not, why would they care?
      - jeroenhd 4y ago
        They care when people owe them money, the same way you care when people owe you money. They prefer not to have to bother to send someone to your house because even though you'll be the one paying for the extra costs, it takes time and effort spent better on other things. I'm sure the "taxation is theft" crazies will have some legal fanfiction about how the government can't just take your money if you only use cash but in practice you're only getting yourself into trouble for no good reason if you try to commit tax fraud.

ch4s3 4y ago

Seems like avoiding credit card fees is a perfectly reasonable explanation, at least in the US where fees exceed 3%. It’s trivial for governments to catch businesses that hold a lot of inventory and are cheating on taxes by more than small amounts.

flohofwoe 4y ago
Usually this then says "No card payment under 10 Euros", but still offer card payment for bigger amounts where the fee doesn't matter as much (which IMHO is completely ok).
- Dries007 4y ago
  This is no longer legal under the PSD2 framework. In Belgium since last summer you have to accept at least 1 form of digital payment now. Some places try to bypass it by only accepting some obscure creditcards.
- ch4s3 4y ago
  I'm ambivalent, about card vs. no at small businesses. Places that take cards are more likely to get my business, but beyond that I'm not concerned.
jeltz 4y ago
Not necessarily. Some small business use their cash to buy stolen goods. For example it used to be quite common for restaurants to buy stolen meat using their cash. You can also pay your staff in cash for some of their hours. Both of these are hard to catch unless you actively have people on location tracking the business. Plus removing cash can make other crimes less appealing (like buying stolen meat).
- ch4s3 4y ago
  It seems to me like one should police meat theft rather than cash use.

Towaway69 4y ago

Olaf Scholz - the countries leader - is involved in the largest tax evasion scandal in the country - CumEx. He knew about it and did nothing to prevent it. What kind of example does that set for the small business people in the country? The politicians are massively corrupt in Germany (Berlins mayor lost her doctor title because she cheated and then she became mayor). I can understand it when small business operators also want to avoid taxes - as the banks regularly also do.