4 ms·

> Is this just not an option in the states? They are working on it: https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/about.html https://www.frbservices.or

by ars 4y ago

> Is this just not an option in the states? They are working on it: https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/about.html https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/about.... should be available this year. Once it's up Zelle, Cashapp, etc will not be needed anymore.

uticus 4y ago
Wow this is the first I've seen of this, amazing it hasn't come across my radar. Seems like a major consolidation, tied closely to a government institution (or whatever the FRB technically is).
- r00fus 4y ago
  Can you explain what you mean by consolidation? It's essentially a standards-based collaborative approach not unlike other large payment networks like in the UK, Europe and India.
  - uticus 4y ago
    Apologies for the armchair commentary. "Consolidation" meaning commerce regulation and oversight more tightly consolidated than possible with technology (including paper notes) currently used. > ...standards-based collaborative approach... You have not said this explicitly, but for myself it is notable that this is not peer-to-peer, with both parties collaborating based on a standard. Instead it is clearinghouse. Unlike peer-to-peer standards, this would give the Fed Reserve at least a large dataset or at most a large control lever. From the linked article: > Through financial institutions participating in the FedNow Service... > Consistent with the Federal Reserve’s historical role of providing payment services...
    - r00fus 4y ago
      Of course it's not peer-peer. Therein lies a lot of potential for fraud. Do you have an example of a p2p system that doesn't show all the fraud issues rampant in modern crypto?
samwillis 4y ago
I believe FedNow is the US implementation of FasterPayments which we have had here in the UK since 2008, and what the parent is referring to. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster_Payments https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster_Payments
astrange 4y ago
FedNow is no different from Zelle; it seems to me banks could still mess it up, and most of the complaints here (that you can't reverse a transaction you sent) would still apply to it, since that's kind of the point.
- throw7 4y ago
  I would wait and see. It's not like they're ignoring fraud management: https://www.pymnts.com/news/payment-methods/2022/fednow-pilot-brings-new-features-use-cases-for-instant-payments-in-23-and-beyond/ https://www.pymnts.com/news/payment-methods/2022/fednow-pilo... "FedNow Service features will help participating financial institutions conduct investigations and provide returned funds connected to fraud and errors. Beyond mitigating fraud through the design of the service, Stanescu noted that the Fed is exploring opportunities to collaborate with the industry on consumer education and outreach programs to help identify and prevent scams and promote strong enrollment and authentication processes. In the meantime, the value proposition inherent in irrevocability remains intact: receivers have protection and a guarantee that good funds have hit their account and can be used immediately."
- r00fus 4y ago
  I disagree - it seems a lot more like SEPA in Europe. The non-reversibility seems similar to SEPA fast transactions (ie, similar to fedwire) as well. The fact that they're using ISO20222 is also a clue that they're probably picking up best-practice from European and Asian networks.
- frumper 4y ago
  My biggest complaint with Zelle is my bank helps me by including Zelle in my bank account with easy setup. Some banks it's just included. I'd like a hard lock out on it.

by ars 4y ago

uticus 4y ago

Wow this is the first I've seen of this, amazing it hasn't come across my radar. Seems like a major consolidation, tied closely to a government institution (or whatever the FRB technically is).

r00fus 4y ago
Can you explain what you mean by consolidation? It's essentially a standards-based collaborative approach not unlike other large payment networks like in the UK, Europe and India.
- uticus 4y ago
  Apologies for the armchair commentary. "Consolidation" meaning commerce regulation and oversight more tightly consolidated than possible with technology (including paper notes) currently used. > ...standards-based collaborative approach... You have not said this explicitly, but for myself it is notable that this is not peer-to-peer, with both parties collaborating based on a standard. Instead it is clearinghouse. Unlike peer-to-peer standards, this would give the Fed Reserve at least a large dataset or at most a large control lever. From the linked article: > Through financial institutions participating in the FedNow Service... > Consistent with the Federal Reserve’s historical role of providing payment services...
  - r00fus 4y ago
    Of course it's not peer-peer. Therein lies a lot of potential for fraud. Do you have an example of a p2p system that doesn't show all the fraud issues rampant in modern crypto?

samwillis 4y ago

I believe FedNow is the US implementation of FasterPayments which we have had here in the UK since 2008, and what the parent is referring to. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster_Payments https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster_Payments

astrange 4y ago

FedNow is no different from Zelle; it seems to me banks could still mess it up, and most of the complaints here (that you can't reverse a transaction you sent) would still apply to it, since that's kind of the point.

throw7 4y ago
I would wait and see. It's not like they're ignoring fraud management: https://www.pymnts.com/news/payment-methods/2022/fednow-pilot-brings-new-features-use-cases-for-instant-payments-in-23-and-beyond/ https://www.pymnts.com/news/payment-methods/2022/fednow-pilo... "FedNow Service features will help participating financial institutions conduct investigations and provide returned funds connected to fraud and errors. Beyond mitigating fraud through the design of the service, Stanescu noted that the Fed is exploring opportunities to collaborate with the industry on consumer education and outreach programs to help identify and prevent scams and promote strong enrollment and authentication processes. In the meantime, the value proposition inherent in irrevocability remains intact: receivers have protection and a guarantee that good funds have hit their account and can be used immediately."
r00fus 4y ago
I disagree - it seems a lot more like SEPA in Europe. The non-reversibility seems similar to SEPA fast transactions (ie, similar to fedwire) as well. The fact that they're using ISO20222 is also a clue that they're probably picking up best-practice from European and Asian networks.
frumper 4y ago
My biggest complaint with Zelle is my bank helps me by including Zelle in my bank account with easy setup. Some banks it's just included. I'd like a hard lock out on it.