5 ms·

There are so many alternatives to chemical fertilizer: manure (cow, horse, chicken, human), compost, planting nitrogen fixers, sowing ground cover plants... Dep

There are so many alternatives to chemical fertilizer: manure (cow, horse, chicken, human), compost, planting nitrogen fixers, sowing ground cover plants... Depending on where you live each may be easier or harder to produce or procure. In addition there are generative techniques that concentrate on soil fertility: permaculture, cover crops, syntropic agroforestry to name a few. I have never used a chemical fertilizer in my garden, and am striving towards a completely autonomous fertilization cycle, where my garden's fertility grows each year without any external input.

jvanderbot 4y ago
Imagine throwing 50kg of manure into the back of your tesla every spring.
- RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
  50kg? Try more like 500kg. I usually get a 5 yard load dropped off once a year, and that isn't nearly enough.
  - 082349872349872 4y ago
    HN readers may be amused to learn that "New Idea" is a brand name of manure spreaders.
RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
> There are so many alternatives to chemical fertilizer: manure (cow, horse, chicken, human), compost, planting nitrogen fixers, sowing ground cover plants... Cool. And which of those can I generate using excess electrical energy from my solar panels? >I have never used a chemical fertilizer in my garden, and am striving towards a completely autonomous fertilization cycle That is great. I don't have the time or interest in managing animals, and I manage my space for food production because it gives me a sense of control and independence over my food-supply. Over the last 3 years I've imported almost 5000kg of animal manures into my gardens. Its incredibly expensive, and even with that additional fertility, I need more. Its more important for me to have the independence and control over my food-supply than it is to hold to a particular relgiosity around where my N comes from. If I have animal manures, I'll use them. If I have chemical fertilizers, I'll use them. When I have pest issues, I try to use IPM. When that fails, I'll use a pesticide.
- empyrrhicist 4y ago
  Are you sure you aren't over-fertilizing? Or are you doing something else silly that causes you to lose all your N? That's a crazy amount of nutrient for even a very large garden.
  - RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
    >That's a crazy amount of nutrient for even a very large garden. Its really not. Cattle manure is around 2% nitrogen. If we call a yard of composted manure 450 kg, that's around 9 kg of nitrogen. Say I'm going through 5 yards annually, which is about right, so 45kg. I'd say some where between 1/2- 1/4th of that actually reaches the plants (22kg). I've got substantial gardens, and I garden them very intensively. I've got about 1000m2 of gardens. In my climate I can crop continuously. High fertility for corn would be around 280 kg/ha. If I'm at 220kg/ha on my 1000m2, that seems about right.
    - zafka 4y ago
      Where are you located. I am in south Florida, treasure coast. I am hoping to step up my farming on 5 acres over the next few years.
      - RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
        I'd rather not be too specific, but somewhere that is tropical by lat, but sub-tropical by climate. We would have very similar climates. 5 acres is a huge amount of area. Good luck! I've found a lack of resources for the issues you'll likely face around farming in tropical and sub-tropical climates. It was a big transition for me from being able to rely on long periods of intense cold to kill of most of the pests. I'm still trying to figure out big parts of how to do gardening here.
    - empyrrhicist 4y ago
      Are you actually farming corn though? Over the whole thing? And at the density of commercial operations? Sure, industrial corn operations use a lot of nitrogen (though they have indeed been shown to be over fertilizing, and a lot of the N from my state ends up in the Gulf), but gardens worked by human hands can be much, much, much more resource efficient at the cost of time and difficulty of automation. With integrated nitrogen fixing plants, better use of mulch (which yes, ties up N at the surface temporarily, but can pay dividends overall), management of water flow etc, I cannot imagine needing that much fertilizer. I garden intensively in Iowa, and I do add a lot of compost when starting new beds (soil is clay) and I top up in the spring, but the older my beds get the fewer inputs they need.
sandworm101 4y ago
Good luck with eating lettuce fertilized with pig/human manure. There is a reason we have health codes. It is the same reason why people in the middle ages boiled all thier food, never ever eating "fresh" vegitables. And if anyone is worried about antibiotics in meat, have a look at how many different drugs are found in human poop. There are a thousand little ancient diseases out there that we in the west have largely forgotten about. Start pooping near where we grow food and they will all start comming back. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-friday-edition-1.5166570/brain-surgeons-went-looking-for-a-tumour-but-found-a-tapeworm-instead-1.5166571 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-friday-ed...

jvanderbot 4y ago

Imagine throwing 50kg of manure into the back of your tesla every spring.

RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
50kg? Try more like 500kg. I usually get a 5 yard load dropped off once a year, and that isn't nearly enough.
- 082349872349872 4y ago
  HN readers may be amused to learn that "New Idea" is a brand name of manure spreaders.

RosanaAnaDana 4y ago

> There are so many alternatives to chemical fertilizer: manure (cow, horse, chicken, human), compost, planting nitrogen fixers, sowing ground cover plants... Cool. And which of those can I generate using excess electrical energy from my solar panels? >I have never used a chemical fertilizer in my garden, and am striving towards a completely autonomous fertilization cycle That is great. I don't have the time or interest in managing animals, and I manage my space for food production because it gives me a sense of control and independence over my food-supply. Over the last 3 years I've imported almost 5000kg of animal manures into my gardens. Its incredibly expensive, and even with that additional fertility, I need more. Its more important for me to have the independence and control over my food-supply than it is to hold to a particular relgiosity around where my N comes from. If I have animal manures, I'll use them. If I have chemical fertilizers, I'll use them. When I have pest issues, I try to use IPM. When that fails, I'll use a pesticide.

empyrrhicist 4y ago
Are you sure you aren't over-fertilizing? Or are you doing something else silly that causes you to lose all your N? That's a crazy amount of nutrient for even a very large garden.
- RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
  >That's a crazy amount of nutrient for even a very large garden. Its really not. Cattle manure is around 2% nitrogen. If we call a yard of composted manure 450 kg, that's around 9 kg of nitrogen. Say I'm going through 5 yards annually, which is about right, so 45kg. I'd say some where between 1/2- 1/4th of that actually reaches the plants (22kg). I've got substantial gardens, and I garden them very intensively. I've got about 1000m2 of gardens. In my climate I can crop continuously. High fertility for corn would be around 280 kg/ha. If I'm at 220kg/ha on my 1000m2, that seems about right.
  - zafka 4y ago
    Where are you located. I am in south Florida, treasure coast. I am hoping to step up my farming on 5 acres over the next few years.
    - RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
      I'd rather not be too specific, but somewhere that is tropical by lat, but sub-tropical by climate. We would have very similar climates. 5 acres is a huge amount of area. Good luck! I've found a lack of resources for the issues you'll likely face around farming in tropical and sub-tropical climates. It was a big transition for me from being able to rely on long periods of intense cold to kill of most of the pests. I'm still trying to figure out big parts of how to do gardening here.
  - empyrrhicist 4y ago
    Are you actually farming corn though? Over the whole thing? And at the density of commercial operations? Sure, industrial corn operations use a lot of nitrogen (though they have indeed been shown to be over fertilizing, and a lot of the N from my state ends up in the Gulf), but gardens worked by human hands can be much, much, much more resource efficient at the cost of time and difficulty of automation. With integrated nitrogen fixing plants, better use of mulch (which yes, ties up N at the surface temporarily, but can pay dividends overall), management of water flow etc, I cannot imagine needing that much fertilizer. I garden intensively in Iowa, and I do add a lot of compost when starting new beds (soil is clay) and I top up in the spring, but the older my beds get the fewer inputs they need.

sandworm101 4y ago

Good luck with eating lettuce fertilized with pig/human manure. There is a reason we have health codes. It is the same reason why people in the middle ages boiled all thier food, never ever eating "fresh" vegitables. And if anyone is worried about antibiotics in meat, have a look at how many different drugs are found in human poop. There are a thousand little ancient diseases out there that we in the west have largely forgotten about. Start pooping near where we grow food and they will all start comming back. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-friday-edition-1.5166570/brain-surgeons-went-looking-for-a-tumour-but-found-a-tapeworm-instead-1.5166571 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-friday-ed...