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The entire finance industry has a disdain for "lifestyle businesses", that just generate enough profits for the founders and employees to live on, but will neve

The entire finance industry has a disdain for "lifestyle businesses", that just generate enough profits for the founders and employees to live on, but will never generate an exit beyond that. I get why, but for utility products, a solid lifestyle for the employees and a useful product for users is enough, and should be enough.

jrochkind1 4y ago
And can be enough if you don't need large quantities of investment capital. If you don't _need_ it, but _want_ it to get fabulously wealthy... well, "lifestyle business" is not the path to that, by definition. It's almost like the interests of those who want to get fabulously wealthy -- whether founders or investors -- become misaligned with the interests of the users, even steeper/faster than when you "just" have a "lifestyle business".
- jjeaff 4y ago
  The thing is, founders can get fabulously wealthy with a lifestyle business or at least very wealthy, but it might take longer. But all the established money seeking rent parked at VC firms can't get a cut if you don't play ball with them.
  - sirsinsalot 4y ago
    Millions, even tens of millions, for founders isn't unheard of at all for small "lifestyle" businesses. Not VC billions, but fuck you money is certainly doable.
    - jrochkind1 4y ago
      I don't know if a couple million is "fuck you" money in 2023 (enough to never work again and eventually retire while living a fairly luxurious lifestyle?), but point taken.
      - sirsinsalot 4y ago
        If you can't say "fuck you" with a couple million in the bank, tax paid, in 2023 then you're living WAY outside your means.
        jrochkind1 4y ago
        I can say "fuck you" with no money at all, since I can still talk for free! How much do you need to take a, say, $130K income for the rest of your life? (Which is still not really enough to live at a wealthy luxury standard). Depends on how old you are and how long you'll live, as well as anticipated rates of investment return. But it's almost definitely more than 2 million. https://www.thekickassentrepreneur.com/never-have-to-work-again/ https://www.thekickassentrepreneur.com/never-have-to-work-ag...
        jjeaff 4y ago
        FU money has nothing to do with living a wealthy lifestyle. It's having all your basic needs taken care of so you don't have to do things you don't want to do to earn money. See John Goodman in the Big Lebowski for a full definition.
  - jrochkind1 4y ago
    Yeah, wealthy enough if not billionaire, true. > But all the established money seeking rent parked at VC firms can't get a cut if you don't play ball with them. OK, but why does a founder care about that? Either they think their business model can't get them to a sustainable lifestyle business without external capital investment... or they want to get more-than-lifestyle-business wealthy, right?
    - jjeaff 4y ago
      I'm sure that's what they think. I don't know if the data really indicates that going to VC route will make you richer. It could certainly make you more publicly successful.
tunesmith 4y ago
Lifestyle businesses have a big flaw in American culture though; our safety net is not enough to make "meets expenses" a tenable long-term approach. We basically have to aim for a big wad of savings for later in life, which incentivizes going for exits and cash-outs.
- fortuna86 4y ago
  This also means creation of billion dollar global platforms that Europe and other parts of the world have never accomplished. Trade offs.
  - ok_dad 4y ago
    I feel so happy that we have created "billion dollar global platforms" instead of universal healthcare or ensuring everyone was sleeping indoors. Woo-hoo!
    - fortuna86 4y ago
      Are you implying that there are no homeless people in Europe? Or problems with poverty or access to healthcare?
- nightski 4y ago
  Seeing as only a few % of Americans achieve what you are saying I don’t think it’s strictly true. Maybe if you want to fatfire or something
- secabeen 4y ago
  Perhaps, I would hope that a sustainable lifestyle business would be able to pay employees and founders enough to build a comfortable retirement nest egg through savings, investments, and compound interest.
- TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
  VueScan (hamrick.com) is a very good example of a successful lifestyle business (first release in 1998). The founder and his son work on the product full-time. I don't think they have any other staff, but I could be wrong.

jrochkind1 4y ago

And can be enough if you don't need large quantities of investment capital. If you don't _need_ it, but _want_ it to get fabulously wealthy... well, "lifestyle business" is not the path to that, by definition. It's almost like the interests of those who want to get fabulously wealthy -- whether founders or investors -- become misaligned with the interests of the users, even steeper/faster than when you "just" have a "lifestyle business".

jjeaff 4y ago
The thing is, founders can get fabulously wealthy with a lifestyle business or at least very wealthy, but it might take longer. But all the established money seeking rent parked at VC firms can't get a cut if you don't play ball with them.
- sirsinsalot 4y ago
  Millions, even tens of millions, for founders isn't unheard of at all for small "lifestyle" businesses. Not VC billions, but fuck you money is certainly doable.
  - jrochkind1 4y ago
    I don't know if a couple million is "fuck you" money in 2023 (enough to never work again and eventually retire while living a fairly luxurious lifestyle?), but point taken.
    - sirsinsalot 4y ago
      If you can't say "fuck you" with a couple million in the bank, tax paid, in 2023 then you're living WAY outside your means.
      - jrochkind1 4y ago
        I can say "fuck you" with no money at all, since I can still talk for free! How much do you need to take a, say, $130K income for the rest of your life? (Which is still not really enough to live at a wealthy luxury standard). Depends on how old you are and how long you'll live, as well as anticipated rates of investment return. But it's almost definitely more than 2 million. https://www.thekickassentrepreneur.com/never-have-to-work-again/ https://www.thekickassentrepreneur.com/never-have-to-work-ag...
        jjeaff 4y ago
        FU money has nothing to do with living a wealthy lifestyle. It's having all your basic needs taken care of so you don't have to do things you don't want to do to earn money. See John Goodman in the Big Lebowski for a full definition.
- jrochkind1 4y ago
  Yeah, wealthy enough if not billionaire, true. > But all the established money seeking rent parked at VC firms can't get a cut if you don't play ball with them. OK, but why does a founder care about that? Either they think their business model can't get them to a sustainable lifestyle business without external capital investment... or they want to get more-than-lifestyle-business wealthy, right?
  - jjeaff 4y ago
    I'm sure that's what they think. I don't know if the data really indicates that going to VC route will make you richer. It could certainly make you more publicly successful.

tunesmith 4y ago

Lifestyle businesses have a big flaw in American culture though; our safety net is not enough to make "meets expenses" a tenable long-term approach. We basically have to aim for a big wad of savings for later in life, which incentivizes going for exits and cash-outs.

fortuna86 4y ago
This also means creation of billion dollar global platforms that Europe and other parts of the world have never accomplished. Trade offs.
- ok_dad 4y ago
  I feel so happy that we have created "billion dollar global platforms" instead of universal healthcare or ensuring everyone was sleeping indoors. Woo-hoo!
  - fortuna86 4y ago
    Are you implying that there are no homeless people in Europe? Or problems with poverty or access to healthcare?
nightski 4y ago
Seeing as only a few % of Americans achieve what you are saying I don’t think it’s strictly true. Maybe if you want to fatfire or something
secabeen 4y ago
Perhaps, I would hope that a sustainable lifestyle business would be able to pay employees and founders enough to build a comfortable retirement nest egg through savings, investments, and compound interest.
TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
VueScan (hamrick.com) is a very good example of a successful lifestyle business (first release in 1998). The founder and his son work on the product full-time. I don't think they have any other staff, but I could be wrong.