5 ms·

>very little unrest ... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/dec/20/argentina2 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/dec/20/argentina2 >If you’re concerned

>very little unrest ... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/dec/20/argentina2 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/dec/20/argentina2 >If you’re concerned about that risk, an offshore bank account is better protection than physical assets within the expropriating government’s jurisdiction. Due to FATCA Americans are pariahs in the global banking system. For grocery money probably not going to happen.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
The ‘01 riots were a symptom of economic collapse. I don’t recall any significant contemporaneous attribution to the expropriation of U.S. dollars in bank accounts, which mostly hit the rich. > Due to FATCA Americans are pariahs in the global banking system For grocery money, a second bank account is sufficient. For expropriation risk, opening an offshore account as an American is nontrivial, but far from pariah status. (For that experience, say you’re Russian.)
- notch656c 4y ago
  It's interesting to characterize economic collapse as unrelated to access to foreign currency for international trade. Also interesting to presume what happens to the rich, who are often the employer and owners, doesn't cause issues for the rest of the economy and the employees of the rich. Also bear in mind that in the US it is a rich person's game indeed to hold foreign currency. But in Latin America and especially Argentina USD is far more common in the common man's hand.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > interesting to characterize economic collapse as unrelated to access to foreign currency for international trade This jumps the rhetorical shark. Nobody said they’re unrelated. Just that the unrest is a response to the collapse. It would have occurred if the government seized dollars or not. The dollar seizure was a response to the collapse.
    - notch656c 4y ago
      I acknowledge neither of our theories can be proven but it just seems too far fetched to me the unrest was attributable to everything but the banking measures.
      - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        > it just seems too far fetched to me the unrest was attributable to everything but the banking measures Temporary and permanent capital controls have a long history of peaceful implementation. Economic collapses do not.
        notch656c 4y ago
        An important consideration here is unrest is in part in response to perceived factors in the economic collapse. Even if one takes the position the measures are not the cause of the collapse they can still be a cause of unrest.
        JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        > if one takes the position the measures are not the cause of the collapse they can still be a cause of unrest You’re missing that the measures have been taken in other contexts without unrest, e.g. Iceland, Cyprus, FDR’a gold confiscation. If X always precedes Y, and Z sometimes does but sometimes doesn’t (and when it does, is twinned with X), and we witness X, Z and Y, X is the dominant explanation for Y.
        notch656c 4y ago
        " there are four kinds of countries: developed countries, underdeveloped countries, Japan, and Argentina." -- Simon Kuznets
        JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        Kuznets' quote is about international finance. Not social unrest. The factors that lead Argentina to collapse are uniquely Argentinian. What happened after that is unsurprising.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

The ‘01 riots were a symptom of economic collapse. I don’t recall any significant contemporaneous attribution to the expropriation of U.S. dollars in bank accounts, which mostly hit the rich. > Due to FATCA Americans are pariahs in the global banking system For grocery money, a second bank account is sufficient. For expropriation risk, opening an offshore account as an American is nontrivial, but far from pariah status. (For that experience, say you’re Russian.)

notch656c 4y ago
It's interesting to characterize economic collapse as unrelated to access to foreign currency for international trade. Also interesting to presume what happens to the rich, who are often the employer and owners, doesn't cause issues for the rest of the economy and the employees of the rich. Also bear in mind that in the US it is a rich person's game indeed to hold foreign currency. But in Latin America and especially Argentina USD is far more common in the common man's hand.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > interesting to characterize economic collapse as unrelated to access to foreign currency for international trade This jumps the rhetorical shark. Nobody said they’re unrelated. Just that the unrest is a response to the collapse. It would have occurred if the government seized dollars or not. The dollar seizure was a response to the collapse.
  - notch656c 4y ago
    I acknowledge neither of our theories can be proven but it just seems too far fetched to me the unrest was attributable to everything but the banking measures.
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > it just seems too far fetched to me the unrest was attributable to everything but the banking measures Temporary and permanent capital controls have a long history of peaceful implementation. Economic collapses do not.
      - notch656c 4y ago
        An important consideration here is unrest is in part in response to perceived factors in the economic collapse. Even if one takes the position the measures are not the cause of the collapse they can still be a cause of unrest.
        JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        > if one takes the position the measures are not the cause of the collapse they can still be a cause of unrest You’re missing that the measures have been taken in other contexts without unrest, e.g. Iceland, Cyprus, FDR’a gold confiscation. If X always precedes Y, and Z sometimes does but sometimes doesn’t (and when it does, is twinned with X), and we witness X, Z and Y, X is the dominant explanation for Y.
        notch656c 4y ago
        " there are four kinds of countries: developed countries, underdeveloped countries, Japan, and Argentina." -- Simon Kuznets
        JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        Kuznets' quote is about international finance. Not social unrest. The factors that lead Argentina to collapse are uniquely Argentinian. What happened after that is unsurprising.