6 ms·

Bitcoin fixes this

by zaphod420 4y ago

Bitcoin fixes this

cptskippy 4y ago
By putting the onus on the user to maintain access and security rather than the bank?
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  By making the loss irreversible.
- toomim 4y ago
  Yes, rather than a bank that loses zelle transfers.
  - lanstin 4y ago
    I have five people in my household. Only one of them, not myself, doesn’t regularly loose important stuff. We are super adept at key replacement, Drivers License replacement, passport replacement, debit card replacement, etc. I travel with two phones, two laptops, and two kindles. At this point if I haven’t lost my debit card in six months, I will just report it lost to change the numbers. I have worked at financial institutions; while they are not infallible, they are all better at this stuff than my family, and usually work in teams for important stuff.
  - krferriter 4y ago
    Zelle transfers into an institutionally insured checking/savings account at a major financial institution are pretty safe and people will get their money back. Zelle transfers from non-BoA accounts will have the records at the other banks to prove the transfers existed and they can be recovered that way. If BoA really lost the records and don't have backups and people lost transfers from BoA to BoA accounts and neither BoA account has a record of the transaction, it will just be a hassle for customers probably having to fill out some forms and wait a while.
- Karunamon 4y ago
  I trust my ability to keep a small file (or more realistically: 24 random words that can be committed to memory with some effort) secure more than I trust any corporate entity that treats the penalties for screwing their customers as a mere cost of doing business. Crypto has many failure cases but a generalized loss of all transfers for all wallets is simply not one of them.
  - cptskippy 4y ago
    This isn't a defense of the corporate banking structure. The cognitive load necessary to grok crypto currencies doesn't displace that which is required to utilize existing financial solutions, it's just adds to it. It's also less forgiving and has fewer safe guards or regulations. For most people, crypto is just an added layer of obfuscation and complexity with some speculative gambling sprinkled on top. It benefits few and only when utilized by many. It's like cash, if cash were a bar of wet soap you had to hold onto while riding a roller coaster in the rain.
    - Karunamon 4y ago
      To grok something and to utilize something are two entirely different levels of understanding and it is not honest to conflate the two; most people don't grok the existing financial infrastructures either.
      - cptskippy 4y ago
        Grok was the wrong word then. I wasn't conflating the two but rather emphasizing that the amount of cognitive load needed to utilizing crypto in our society is far higher than what's needed to use a cash, bank card, or even credit.
        Karunamon 4y ago
        I disagree. At least from the standpoint of the average end-user; sending or receiving a payment with a mainstream cryptocurrency is not meaningfully more difficult than doing that with something like PayPal or Cashapp. Different, but not more difficult. And this is with a wallet where you control your own keys. If you use a centralized site like Coinbase then is basically indistinguishable from something like those other apps.
- sowbug 4y ago
  By aligning the interests of the custodian and beneficiary.
  - cuteboy19 4y ago
    Money loss of this kind does not happen because the interest of the custodian is misaligned. The bank does not make a profit if your money goes missing. Technical errors can happen regardless of what the custodian wants
ceejayoz 4y ago
No, it doesn't. They can go missing, too. https://www.businessinsider.com/james-howells-threw-away-bitcoin-dump-masterplan-get-back-2022-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/james-howells-threw-away-bit... > James Howells is known as the man who accidentally threw away 8,000 bitcoins. Now he has an $11 million master plan to get them back.
CyberDildonics 4y ago
Bitcoin has a transaction throughput of 1 KB/s (less than a 28.8 modem) for the entire world. https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/size-btc.html#1y https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/size-btc.html#1y
- fnordpiglet 4y ago
  Stop using facts, math, information theory, and other malarkey when discussing crypto. They are all clearly not important to the goal of pumping and dumping. Thanks.
- idiotsecant 4y ago
  It's curious to me that this is downvoted, I am practically a crypto evangelist and have been since the beginning but even I acknowledge that the BTC network's capacity is extremely, extremely low. It's not suitable as a world-wide transaction engine, not even for relatively infrequent transaction types like store of value accounts that don't move around. There have been some half-hearted attempts to fix this (lightning network for example) but nothing that actually provides substantial throughput. Bitcoin Cash was an attempt to improve it incrementally but that was pretty solidly rejected by the community (and wouldn't have really solved the problem anyhow) I think it's fair to say BTC has a capacity problem, and it's not just a technical one - it's also a cultural aversion to change in the base protocol and cultural aversion to extension of the base protocol to allow additional abstraction layers that could solve the problem.
  - Laaas 4y ago
    In what way does Lightning not solve the problem?
    - CyberDildonics 4y ago
      How does it solve the problem in any way? If we take a step back, we should also realize that no other cryptocurrency has this problem. You just let the throughput be higher and it works, because 1 KB/s is completely absurd in 2023. Any transaction still has to make it on to the chain. A side chain would be like us playing catch in the back yard and thinking we will somehow be padding our major league baseball stats. It doesn't matter until something happens where it counts. If you find someone to play catch with, that's great, but the whole point of a global transaction network is that anyone can send a balance to anyone else.

Bitcoin fixes this

cptskippy 4y ago

By putting the onus on the user to maintain access and security rather than the bank?

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
By making the loss irreversible.
toomim 4y ago
Yes, rather than a bank that loses zelle transfers.
- lanstin 4y ago
  I have five people in my household. Only one of them, not myself, doesn’t regularly loose important stuff. We are super adept at key replacement, Drivers License replacement, passport replacement, debit card replacement, etc. I travel with two phones, two laptops, and two kindles. At this point if I haven’t lost my debit card in six months, I will just report it lost to change the numbers. I have worked at financial institutions; while they are not infallible, they are all better at this stuff than my family, and usually work in teams for important stuff.
- krferriter 4y ago
  Zelle transfers into an institutionally insured checking/savings account at a major financial institution are pretty safe and people will get their money back. Zelle transfers from non-BoA accounts will have the records at the other banks to prove the transfers existed and they can be recovered that way. If BoA really lost the records and don't have backups and people lost transfers from BoA to BoA accounts and neither BoA account has a record of the transaction, it will just be a hassle for customers probably having to fill out some forms and wait a while.
Karunamon 4y ago
I trust my ability to keep a small file (or more realistically: 24 random words that can be committed to memory with some effort) secure more than I trust any corporate entity that treats the penalties for screwing their customers as a mere cost of doing business. Crypto has many failure cases but a generalized loss of all transfers for all wallets is simply not one of them.
- cptskippy 4y ago
  This isn't a defense of the corporate banking structure. The cognitive load necessary to grok crypto currencies doesn't displace that which is required to utilize existing financial solutions, it's just adds to it. It's also less forgiving and has fewer safe guards or regulations. For most people, crypto is just an added layer of obfuscation and complexity with some speculative gambling sprinkled on top. It benefits few and only when utilized by many. It's like cash, if cash were a bar of wet soap you had to hold onto while riding a roller coaster in the rain.
  - Karunamon 4y ago
    To grok something and to utilize something are two entirely different levels of understanding and it is not honest to conflate the two; most people don't grok the existing financial infrastructures either.
    - cptskippy 4y ago
      Grok was the wrong word then. I wasn't conflating the two but rather emphasizing that the amount of cognitive load needed to utilizing crypto in our society is far higher than what's needed to use a cash, bank card, or even credit.
      - Karunamon 4y ago
        I disagree. At least from the standpoint of the average end-user; sending or receiving a payment with a mainstream cryptocurrency is not meaningfully more difficult than doing that with something like PayPal or Cashapp. Different, but not more difficult. And this is with a wallet where you control your own keys. If you use a centralized site like Coinbase then is basically indistinguishable from something like those other apps.
sowbug 4y ago
By aligning the interests of the custodian and beneficiary.
- cuteboy19 4y ago
  Money loss of this kind does not happen because the interest of the custodian is misaligned. The bank does not make a profit if your money goes missing. Technical errors can happen regardless of what the custodian wants

ceejayoz 4y ago

No, it doesn't. They can go missing, too. https://www.businessinsider.com/james-howells-threw-away-bitcoin-dump-masterplan-get-back-2022-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/james-howells-threw-away-bit... > James Howells is known as the man who accidentally threw away 8,000 bitcoins. Now he has an $11 million master plan to get them back.

CyberDildonics 4y ago

Bitcoin has a transaction throughput of 1 KB/s (less than a 28.8 modem) for the entire world. https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/size-btc.html#1y https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/size-btc.html#1y

fnordpiglet 4y ago
Stop using facts, math, information theory, and other malarkey when discussing crypto. They are all clearly not important to the goal of pumping and dumping. Thanks.
idiotsecant 4y ago
It's curious to me that this is downvoted, I am practically a crypto evangelist and have been since the beginning but even I acknowledge that the BTC network's capacity is extremely, extremely low. It's not suitable as a world-wide transaction engine, not even for relatively infrequent transaction types like store of value accounts that don't move around. There have been some half-hearted attempts to fix this (lightning network for example) but nothing that actually provides substantial throughput. Bitcoin Cash was an attempt to improve it incrementally but that was pretty solidly rejected by the community (and wouldn't have really solved the problem anyhow) I think it's fair to say BTC has a capacity problem, and it's not just a technical one - it's also a cultural aversion to change in the base protocol and cultural aversion to extension of the base protocol to allow additional abstraction layers that could solve the problem.
- Laaas 4y ago
  In what way does Lightning not solve the problem?
  - CyberDildonics 4y ago
    How does it solve the problem in any way? If we take a step back, we should also realize that no other cryptocurrency has this problem. You just let the throughput be higher and it works, because 1 KB/s is completely absurd in 2023. Any transaction still has to make it on to the chain. A side chain would be like us playing catch in the back yard and thinking we will somehow be padding our major league baseball stats. It doesn't matter until something happens where it counts. If you find someone to play catch with, that's great, but the whole point of a global transaction network is that anyone can send a balance to anyone else.