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Gemini is problematic for me because i love the idea of a simpler web, but it doesn't solve any of its core goals around avoiding effects of advertisement while

Gemini is problematic for me because i love the idea of a simpler web, but it doesn't solve any of its core goals around avoiding effects of advertisement while also being less accessible. There's nothing stopping someone from doing any of the dark pattern stuff in gemini the creator is upset about with the modern web. And there's nothing stopping someone from avoiding all of it with http. It doesn't really serve a good purpose as an application layer protocol. See also a longer form writeup of similar issues: https://マリウス.com/gemini-is-solutionism-at-its-worst/ https://xn--gckvb8fzb.com/gemini-is-solutionism-at-its-worst...

akkartik 4y ago
Psst, thanks for all your good work keeping the riffraff out. My response the last time your post was here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30067400#30068447 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30067400#30068447
- tiledjinn 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - LesZedCB 4y ago
    ~~You were the top level comment on that thread.~~ Edit: nvm, got the usernames backwards
    - tiledjinn 4y ago
      That would be pretty difficult, as this is my first comment chain on HN in around ten years.
  - akkartik 4y ago
    Oh sorry, I just realized I misread your first comment. I thought you said that blog post was yours. (I still disagree with your position as my link expresses from earlier.)
xcombelle 4y ago
one of the "feature" of ads is that they track you in a cross website way. and as no having cookies & co, gemini makes this job a lot harder for an advertiser.
- Shared404 4y ago
  In addition, I _know_ that if I follow a gemini:// link I'm not gonna have to defend myself against aggressive JS or too much unpleasant design that I can't override, whereas you never have that guarantee on HTTP.
- krferriter 4y ago
  You can make an http web browser not store any cookies. This may limit the operation of some existing sites that rely on cookies though because they can't maintain client side session information or other state. Tracking cookies are not inherent to http. http is just the content transfer protocol. I feel like campaigning against tracking cookies within http, and advocating for http browsers to have more stringent handling of 3rd party cookies (like what Firefox offers, but maybe even more) is more likely to get wider adoption than coming up with a complete replacement for http.
- livrem 4y ago
  Also most clients do not render images at all or only render images if you click on them. Very few clients support any kind of animations or sounds. Of course someone could still do marketing and post some text-only ads if they want to. If it is too annoying I guess I will not visit that page again. If it is not too annoying I can just ignore it and keep reading. An ad is not automatically a dark pattern.
rakoo 4y ago
Good, because gemini doesn't claim to solve the problems of the web. It's a different space, like IRC or emails.
tedunangst 4y ago
What would be your outline for a protocol that cannot transmit advertising? How would it work?

akkartik 4y ago

Psst, thanks for all your good work keeping the riffraff out. My response the last time your post was here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30067400#30068447 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30067400#30068447

tiledjinn 4y ago
[flagged]
- LesZedCB 4y ago
  ~~You were the top level comment on that thread.~~ Edit: nvm, got the usernames backwards
  - tiledjinn 4y ago
    That would be pretty difficult, as this is my first comment chain on HN in around ten years.
- akkartik 4y ago
  Oh sorry, I just realized I misread your first comment. I thought you said that blog post was yours. (I still disagree with your position as my link expresses from earlier.)

xcombelle 4y ago

one of the "feature" of ads is that they track you in a cross website way. and as no having cookies & co, gemini makes this job a lot harder for an advertiser.

Shared404 4y ago
In addition, I _know_ that if I follow a gemini:// link I'm not gonna have to defend myself against aggressive JS or too much unpleasant design that I can't override, whereas you never have that guarantee on HTTP.
krferriter 4y ago
You can make an http web browser not store any cookies. This may limit the operation of some existing sites that rely on cookies though because they can't maintain client side session information or other state. Tracking cookies are not inherent to http. http is just the content transfer protocol. I feel like campaigning against tracking cookies within http, and advocating for http browsers to have more stringent handling of 3rd party cookies (like what Firefox offers, but maybe even more) is more likely to get wider adoption than coming up with a complete replacement for http.
livrem 4y ago
Also most clients do not render images at all or only render images if you click on them. Very few clients support any kind of animations or sounds. Of course someone could still do marketing and post some text-only ads if they want to. If it is too annoying I guess I will not visit that page again. If it is not too annoying I can just ignore it and keep reading. An ad is not automatically a dark pattern.

rakoo 4y ago

Good, because gemini doesn't claim to solve the problems of the web. It's a different space, like IRC or emails.

tedunangst 4y ago

What would be your outline for a protocol that cannot transmit advertising? How would it work?