4 ms·

I have to admit gemini leave me confused as well. gemini is a simple easy to understand protocol. simpler then http? a specification of which I can put in thi

by somat 4y ago

I have to admit gemini leave me confused as well. gemini is a simple easy to understand protocol. simpler then http? a specification of which I can put in this comment? http: a bunch of newline separated key=value pairs followed by a double newline everything else is the content.

gpderetta 4y ago
your description specifies the syntax, not the semantics of the key/value pairs nor the protocol state machine.
- somat 4y ago
  A fair point but my point is that http is a very simple easy to use specification, and for content html can be a very simple easy to use document format, gemini is fine, I think it is great that people are having fun on the internet, you will however have a hard time convincing me that http/html is too complicated. Note that html can be too complicated, but it does not have to be, not everything needs to be some sort of monstrous framework heavy single page javascript encumbered anomaly.
  - Buffout 4y ago
    [dead]
  - fsiefken 4y ago
    yes, the argument goes that because html can be too complicated gemini was designed to actively prevent and limit these complications. Of course html can be used in a simple gemini- or gopherlike way as well. But some purists want nothing to do with the complexities, distractions from and corruption of pure textual information.
  - CharlesW 4y ago
    > Note that html can be too complicated, but it does not have to be, not everything needs to be some sort of monstrous framework heavy single page javascript encumbered anomaly. The philosophy of Gemini seems to be that it's not enough that people can create Gemini's austere's experience with the web, but that everyone must be forced to conform. I guess "punk" has lost all of it's meaning.
    - teucris 4y ago
      > but that everyone must be forced to conform One thing I like about smolweb stuff, including Gemini, is that they really aren’t being gatekeepers. Sure, they have strong opinions (and they encode them in protocols) but it comes off like a DM trying to make a good campaign.
    - seanw444 4y ago
      You're free to express yourself within the technological limitations. Sometimes that's more freeing than having an overload of functionality. It also makes it more of an open platform because anybody can re-implement it if they want. That's plenty "punk" to me. Alternatively, use the flying spaghetti codebase monster duopoly, also known as Chromium and Firefox.
      - krapp 4y ago
        >You're free to express yourself within the technological limitations. Sometimes that's more freeing than having an overload of functionality. It also makes it more of an open platform because anybody can re-implement it if they want. That's plenty "punk" to me. Being satisfied with expressing oneself within technological limitations has never been "punk." Punk is pushing a system to its bleeding edge, breaking it, undermining it, using it in ways it was never intended for and not giving a damn about keeping things tidy. The web in all its hypercomplex madness and ugliness is far more punk than Gemini is even capable of being. Gemini doesn't even allow site authors control over the design or layout of their content - that's entirely implemented by the browser. Punk is rebellion against authority and systems of control, while Gemini is rebellion against freedom and the imposition of control for the sake of ascetic minimalism. Punk is anarchy, while Gemini is orthodoxy. It gets points for being anticapitalist, though.
        marssaxman 4y ago
        > Gemini doesn't even allow site authors control over the design or layout of their content Of course not. End users should have control of their experience. Why should someone else get to control what my software does on my machine? Why should some designer somewhere be the authority? I'm going to pick the fonts and colors and styles I want. Seems like a pretty punk-rebellious attitude to me.
warinukraine 4y ago
> http: a bunch of newline separated key=value pairs followed by a double newline everything else is the content. This is a webdev's idea of what HTTP is
- somat 4y ago
  And... I have built http servers in shell, really, that is all it has to be, It can, and usually is more, but it is trivial to build a simple http server. in fact that is sort of the genius of http, how simple and human readable it is.

by somat 4y ago

gpderetta 4y ago

your description specifies the syntax, not the semantics of the key/value pairs nor the protocol state machine.

somat 4y ago
A fair point but my point is that http is a very simple easy to use specification, and for content html can be a very simple easy to use document format, gemini is fine, I think it is great that people are having fun on the internet, you will however have a hard time convincing me that http/html is too complicated. Note that html can be too complicated, but it does not have to be, not everything needs to be some sort of monstrous framework heavy single page javascript encumbered anomaly.
- Buffout 4y ago
  [dead]
- fsiefken 4y ago
  yes, the argument goes that because html can be too complicated gemini was designed to actively prevent and limit these complications. Of course html can be used in a simple gemini- or gopherlike way as well. But some purists want nothing to do with the complexities, distractions from and corruption of pure textual information.
- CharlesW 4y ago
  > Note that html can be too complicated, but it does not have to be, not everything needs to be some sort of monstrous framework heavy single page javascript encumbered anomaly. The philosophy of Gemini seems to be that it's not enough that people can create Gemini's austere's experience with the web, but that everyone must be forced to conform. I guess "punk" has lost all of it's meaning.
  - teucris 4y ago
    > but that everyone must be forced to conform One thing I like about smolweb stuff, including Gemini, is that they really aren’t being gatekeepers. Sure, they have strong opinions (and they encode them in protocols) but it comes off like a DM trying to make a good campaign.
  - seanw444 4y ago
    You're free to express yourself within the technological limitations. Sometimes that's more freeing than having an overload of functionality. It also makes it more of an open platform because anybody can re-implement it if they want. That's plenty "punk" to me. Alternatively, use the flying spaghetti codebase monster duopoly, also known as Chromium and Firefox.
    - krapp 4y ago
      >You're free to express yourself within the technological limitations. Sometimes that's more freeing than having an overload of functionality. It also makes it more of an open platform because anybody can re-implement it if they want. That's plenty "punk" to me. Being satisfied with expressing oneself within technological limitations has never been "punk." Punk is pushing a system to its bleeding edge, breaking it, undermining it, using it in ways it was never intended for and not giving a damn about keeping things tidy. The web in all its hypercomplex madness and ugliness is far more punk than Gemini is even capable of being. Gemini doesn't even allow site authors control over the design or layout of their content - that's entirely implemented by the browser. Punk is rebellion against authority and systems of control, while Gemini is rebellion against freedom and the imposition of control for the sake of ascetic minimalism. Punk is anarchy, while Gemini is orthodoxy. It gets points for being anticapitalist, though.
      - marssaxman 4y ago
        > Gemini doesn't even allow site authors control over the design or layout of their content Of course not. End users should have control of their experience. Why should someone else get to control what my software does on my machine? Why should some designer somewhere be the authority? I'm going to pick the fonts and colors and styles I want. Seems like a pretty punk-rebellious attitude to me.

warinukraine 4y ago

> http: a bunch of newline separated key=value pairs followed by a double newline everything else is the content. This is a webdev's idea of what HTTP is

somat 4y ago
And... I have built http servers in shell, really, that is all it has to be, It can, and usually is more, but it is trivial to build a simple http server. in fact that is sort of the genius of http, how simple and human readable it is.