4 ms·

I mean in the sense that no one questions the idea that it should be allowed to be an ethnic enclave. Meanwhile here's an entire article saying Ukrainians shou

I mean in the sense that no one questions the idea that it should be allowed to be an ethnic enclave. Meanwhile here's an entire article saying Ukrainians shouldn't be allowed to have a community.

Mountain_Skies 4y ago
Do you also speak up in support of white Christian nationalists having their own enclaves? Not in your mind, but on public message boards or even face-to-face?
- DontchaKnowit 4y ago
  [flagged]
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  So is this more Russian propaganda denying that Ukrainians are a distinct people or a brain-dead comment about how all white people are the same? Because while the British were conquering half the world and running the transatlantic slave trade, Ukrainian people were simply trying to avoid being conquered by various powers and subjected to genocide. The Mongols, Ottomans, Tatars, Polish-Lithuanians, Austro-Hungarians, Germans and Russians all conquered Ukraine at times, the Russians subjected them to a genocide and are currently attempting another... Ukraine's last 700 years of history are basically just attempting to stay alive and independent. But sure, go on about how they're the same as WASPs and have white privilege or some other nonsense. Anyhow, Ukrainians have distinct language, culture, food and are mostly a religion that's a tiny minority in North America, so go on about why they can't decide to have a small enclave when literally every other culture does. Why are Chinatowns and Jewish quarters OK but not a single Ukrainian country club?
  - mardifoufs 4y ago
    You just ignored the question, though, and this has nothing to do with russia, so that was just a weird deflection. Yes, ukrainians are a distinct nation. But the point is that discriminating based on race or ethnicity is bad, no matter what. Would it be ok for french people to create a french only city/community in France? As for jews and chinese communities, yes it would be bad if appartments in chinatown explicitly discriminated against non chinese people.
    - Mikeb85 4y ago
      > Would it be ok for french people to create a french only city/community in France? Is Canada Ukraine? Because Ukrainians are an ethnic minority in Canada... French people in France is a terrible example and you know it. That being said, French people literally have their own province in Canada. Where their language and culture is protected by law! > yes it would be bad if appartments in chinatown explicitly discriminated against non chinese people. Have I got news for you...
      - benj111 4y ago
        Discrimination is discrimination. Positive discrimination is the flip side of negative discrimination. If there's a good argument put forward as to why there needs to be discrimination, I'll listen to it, but 'ethnic minority' isn't an argument. Whites are an ethnic minority in South Africa after all.
        Mikeb85 4y ago
        > Whites are an ethnic minority in South Africa after all. Oh look, another disingenuous comparison of people who colonized every continent versus people who were oppressed for 700 years and had a genocide carried out against them because of a similarity in skin colour. You gonna say Filipinos and Japanese have the same privilege because they're both Asian?
        benj111 4y ago
        so it isnt about ethnic minorities then? its about privilege. One doesn't stand in for the other, privilege isn't even fixed. In some circumstances even white males are unprivileged. There is nuance, and 'ethic minorities' completely misses the nuance. Also is colonisation the problem? The Chinese went to America of their own will, do they have less moral standing than black Africans? And then we get to native North Americans. At what point did they stop having the privilege Vis a vis the founding fathers? Are the founding fathers morally wrong to have gone to North America or just morally wrong to forcefully move the natives from their lands? Further I'm not Catholic so I don't buy into the white guilt thing based on what some other white people did centuries before, I'm more interested in the here an now. So as I said before. If you want to make a case for why certain groups need protections, why certain groups need positive discrimination to reach parity I'm open to that. But pointing back 700 years and saying ethnic minority isn't an argument.

I mean in the sense that no one questions the idea that it should be allowed to be an ethnic enclave. Meanwhile here's an entire article saying Ukrainians shouldn't be allowed to have a community.

Mountain_Skies 4y ago

Do you also speak up in support of white Christian nationalists having their own enclaves? Not in your mind, but on public message boards or even face-to-face?

DontchaKnowit 4y ago
[flagged]
Mikeb85 4y ago
So is this more Russian propaganda denying that Ukrainians are a distinct people or a brain-dead comment about how all white people are the same? Because while the British were conquering half the world and running the transatlantic slave trade, Ukrainian people were simply trying to avoid being conquered by various powers and subjected to genocide. The Mongols, Ottomans, Tatars, Polish-Lithuanians, Austro-Hungarians, Germans and Russians all conquered Ukraine at times, the Russians subjected them to a genocide and are currently attempting another... Ukraine's last 700 years of history are basically just attempting to stay alive and independent. But sure, go on about how they're the same as WASPs and have white privilege or some other nonsense. Anyhow, Ukrainians have distinct language, culture, food and are mostly a religion that's a tiny minority in North America, so go on about why they can't decide to have a small enclave when literally every other culture does. Why are Chinatowns and Jewish quarters OK but not a single Ukrainian country club?
- mardifoufs 4y ago
  You just ignored the question, though, and this has nothing to do with russia, so that was just a weird deflection. Yes, ukrainians are a distinct nation. But the point is that discriminating based on race or ethnicity is bad, no matter what. Would it be ok for french people to create a french only city/community in France? As for jews and chinese communities, yes it would be bad if appartments in chinatown explicitly discriminated against non chinese people.
  - Mikeb85 4y ago
    > Would it be ok for french people to create a french only city/community in France? Is Canada Ukraine? Because Ukrainians are an ethnic minority in Canada... French people in France is a terrible example and you know it. That being said, French people literally have their own province in Canada. Where their language and culture is protected by law! > yes it would be bad if appartments in chinatown explicitly discriminated against non chinese people. Have I got news for you...
    - benj111 4y ago
      Discrimination is discrimination. Positive discrimination is the flip side of negative discrimination. If there's a good argument put forward as to why there needs to be discrimination, I'll listen to it, but 'ethnic minority' isn't an argument. Whites are an ethnic minority in South Africa after all.
      - Mikeb85 4y ago
        > Whites are an ethnic minority in South Africa after all. Oh look, another disingenuous comparison of people who colonized every continent versus people who were oppressed for 700 years and had a genocide carried out against them because of a similarity in skin colour. You gonna say Filipinos and Japanese have the same privilege because they're both Asian?
        benj111 4y ago
        so it isnt about ethnic minorities then? its about privilege. One doesn't stand in for the other, privilege isn't even fixed. In some circumstances even white males are unprivileged. There is nuance, and 'ethic minorities' completely misses the nuance. Also is colonisation the problem? The Chinese went to America of their own will, do they have less moral standing than black Africans? And then we get to native North Americans. At what point did they stop having the privilege Vis a vis the founding fathers? Are the founding fathers morally wrong to have gone to North America or just morally wrong to forcefully move the natives from their lands? Further I'm not Catholic so I don't buy into the white guilt thing based on what some other white people did centuries before, I'm more interested in the here an now. So as I said before. If you want to make a case for why certain groups need protections, why certain groups need positive discrimination to reach parity I'm open to that. But pointing back 700 years and saying ethnic minority isn't an argument.