4 ms·

> This poster that has just only learned of the word “woke” according to them I only just learned about how the term is used as an insult in your language. Aga

> This poster that has just only learned of the word “woke” according to them I only just learned about how the term is used as an insult in your language. Again, I'm not from your country, so we don't necessarily use it the same way here (as an imported word), capiche? But apart from the word itself, we do have definitely imported the same ideology here, as well as the crazies who take it to an extreme. I'm not saying they're like you, but I'm not saying they're not, either. (We have many right-wing crazies too, mind you! I'm not saying only the lefties have crazies) So again, I used "woke" as a shorthand for the ideology. It's a word I have seen used many many times before, just like any other English word you can pick from any of my comments. The term "woke" is used in contexts such as this one to describe this type of ideology, in many countries including the US. Hell, look at how this word is used in the Vice article this HN post is about. Does that mean the Vice article is insulting all woke people, since it's using that word and that word is now an insult? Or perhaps is it that "woke" is not always used as an insult, but it has been (and still continues to be) simply used to describe this ideology, despite of the negative connotations it has apparently acquired recently? This is something you would likely understand if you were actually trying to make any effort whatsoever. Does all of this mean I can't educate someone on what the word means (i.e. its usual meaning), especially when I have access to sources of truth about the definition of the word in your language? A word, again, that has been exported to many other countries and languages... like wifi, sandwich or shampoo. Note that I'm not insisting on using the term "woke". I can see that it triggers some people, so I'm not likely to use it as much in the future. I only care about discussing the ideology itself, I don't really care what the hell it's actually called, be it in your language or any other. That said, obviously it's good to have clear names (especially without negative connotations) to describe concepts, otherwise it's hard to have constructive dialogues. As you can see from other posts, even when the definition of a term is clear, some people still misunderstand you. > If a far right person refuses to expand on their position and demands that you explain why they’re wrong, you’re looking at bait! Look out, there's another person behind you who doesn't believe in racism (including against white people)! Which means, he is far, far-right, obviously! Oh God, the horror! Careful, he might bite you!

akiselev 4y ago
The best way to prove braingenious wrong is by not engaging with him [1]. This is a pseudoanonymous internet forum - not responding and moving on with your life is a perfectly acceptable response to this situation [1]! If you’re not a far right troll, you gain nothing by trying to prove it [1]. [1] IF you’re not a far right troll Edit: FWIW I don’t believe you when you say “your language,” hence the [1]. “Capisce” is too specific a colloquialism to American English.
- wizeman 4y ago
  > The best way to prove braingenious wrong is by not engaging with him Well, I like to give someone the benefit of the doubt when discussing these kind of contentious issues (up to a limit, of course). It has served me well in the past (here on HN, for example), and I've learned things that I wouldn't have learned otherwise (from people who hold different opinions than mine). I also get bothered when I'm accused of something that I'm not, obviously. It's not always easy to move on when someone is saying blatantly false statements about you, as you can imagine. > FWIW I don’t believe you when you say “your language,” My native language is Portuguese. I was born and raised in Portugal and lived there well until after I was an adult. All of my family and all my childhood friends are Portuguese. I learned English very early in my childhood, as part of my formal education, due to US cultural exports (i.e. Hollywood movies and TV shows that are broadcast in Portugal without dubbing, i.e. they have always been subtitled and therefore it's much easier to learn the language and become fluent in it) and due to my early childhood interest in programming. I've always read lots of English prose, especially related to computers and programming (magazines, articles, documentation, websites, Youtube videos, source code, etc, etc). Almost all of this content is from the US, as you can imagine. I've worked for a few US companies (mostly multinational ones, think FAANG-level) for many years, had many coworkers from all over the world (including many from the US) and always worked remotely, so both oral and written communication has always been in English. Both due to my professional work and as a tourist, I've spent many months in the U.S., in total (close to a year). Well into my adulthood, I've also lived for more than a decade in Spain, so I'm also a fluent Spanish speaker. Also, for many years (perhaps since I started working) I've been reading and listening to way, way more English content than in the other languages I'm a fluent speaker of. This includes Hacker News and other news websites. It includes all media entertainment (Netflix, etc). For decades, I have stopped bothering to find Portuguese or Spanish subtitles anymore for video content due to their mediocre quality or lost meanings, although I do try to put English ones when it's easy to do so. As another example, I almost exclusively follow English-speaking Twitter accounts (although some Spanish ones as well). All of this English content is way, way more interesting to me than what I can find in Portuguese or even Spanish. It's not even remotely comparable. I also don't bother at all with translations from English content which, when they exist at all (well, nowadays there is automated translation, but still), are inevitably mediocre or incomplete due to the much smaller vocabulary in these languages or simply due to the incompetent or error-prone translations. So to summarize, it would be fair to say that you have culturally captured me :) It's OK if you don't believe me, but there you have it anyway.

akiselev 4y ago

The best way to prove braingenious wrong is by not engaging with him [1]. This is a pseudoanonymous internet forum - not responding and moving on with your life is a perfectly acceptable response to this situation [1]! If you’re not a far right troll, you gain nothing by trying to prove it [1]. [1] IF you’re not a far right troll Edit: FWIW I don’t believe you when you say “your language,” hence the [1]. “Capisce” is too specific a colloquialism to American English.

wizeman 4y ago
> The best way to prove braingenious wrong is by not engaging with him Well, I like to give someone the benefit of the doubt when discussing these kind of contentious issues (up to a limit, of course). It has served me well in the past (here on HN, for example), and I've learned things that I wouldn't have learned otherwise (from people who hold different opinions than mine). I also get bothered when I'm accused of something that I'm not, obviously. It's not always easy to move on when someone is saying blatantly false statements about you, as you can imagine. > FWIW I don’t believe you when you say “your language,” My native language is Portuguese. I was born and raised in Portugal and lived there well until after I was an adult. All of my family and all my childhood friends are Portuguese. I learned English very early in my childhood, as part of my formal education, due to US cultural exports (i.e. Hollywood movies and TV shows that are broadcast in Portugal without dubbing, i.e. they have always been subtitled and therefore it's much easier to learn the language and become fluent in it) and due to my early childhood interest in programming. I've always read lots of English prose, especially related to computers and programming (magazines, articles, documentation, websites, Youtube videos, source code, etc, etc). Almost all of this content is from the US, as you can imagine. I've worked for a few US companies (mostly multinational ones, think FAANG-level) for many years, had many coworkers from all over the world (including many from the US) and always worked remotely, so both oral and written communication has always been in English. Both due to my professional work and as a tourist, I've spent many months in the U.S., in total (close to a year). Well into my adulthood, I've also lived for more than a decade in Spain, so I'm also a fluent Spanish speaker. Also, for many years (perhaps since I started working) I've been reading and listening to way, way more English content than in the other languages I'm a fluent speaker of. This includes Hacker News and other news websites. It includes all media entertainment (Netflix, etc). For decades, I have stopped bothering to find Portuguese or Spanish subtitles anymore for video content due to their mediocre quality or lost meanings, although I do try to put English ones when it's easy to do so. As another example, I almost exclusively follow English-speaking Twitter accounts (although some Spanish ones as well). All of this English content is way, way more interesting to me than what I can find in Portuguese or even Spanish. It's not even remotely comparable. I also don't bother at all with translations from English content which, when they exist at all (well, nowadays there is automated translation, but still), are inevitably mediocre or incomplete due to the much smaller vocabulary in these languages or simply due to the incompetent or error-prone translations. So to summarize, it would be fair to say that you have culturally captured me :) It's OK if you don't believe me, but there you have it anyway.