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> imagining the author as a teenage girl doesn't change the story That's obviously false and the author is very clear about the developmental reasons why it is

> imagining the author as a teenage girl doesn't change the story That's obviously false and the author is very clear about the developmental reasons why it is false.[1] What you dismiss as "gender essentialism" is biological fact: there are actual fundamental differences in how adolescent male cognitive structures develop and how adolescent female cognitive structures develop.[2] Sociopathy is a distinctly male problem, and societies where respected male role models don't specifically tell male adolescents to value taking care of others are societies where adolescent males join gangs [3], get radicalized online, and engage in school shootings [4]. [1] "It’s a reminder to boys that they have a duty to their families. It’s a cue to young males—who have a tendency to be self-obsessed—to think of someone other than themselves. It is intended to suppress entitlement." [2] "Being female confers an advantage when it comes to empathy" Dr. Laurence Steinberg, Age of Opportunity 95-96 (2015). [3] https://ojjdp.ojp.gov/sites/g/files/xyckuh176/files/pubs/96natyouthgangsrvy/surv_6b.html https://ojjdp.ojp.gov/sites/g/files/xyckuh176/files/pubs/96n... [4] https://www.statista.com/statistics/476445/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-gender/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/476445/mass-shootings-in...

MrJohz 4y ago
I don't know why you think it's obviously false. The problem is that the child sees chores as arbitrary labour without value to the themselves, not realising that by serving the family they help themselves as well. That's something that every child has to learn - are you going to claim that a girl in this situation is going to go "whoopee, chores, that's really what makes my feminine brain tick"? I absolutely agree that we need adult male role models to tell male adolescents that they need to take care of others. We need it for women too, but that's a less pressing need for most of our societies. I suspect that the original tweeter would agree to that too. But the point the tweet was making is that "look after your mother while I'm gone" is not that. As I pointed out in the comment, it (a) doesn't give any actionable instruction or help, and (b) doesn't come from a decision made by the whole community. Instead, it's just a harmful reinforcement of the idea that men have an inherent "protector" role that defines their identity.
- torstenvl 4y ago
  Do you have any evidentiary support for the idea that redirecting testosterone-based emotional responses in a pro-social (protective) rather than in an anti-social (aggressive) way is "harmful"? HN is not the place for propaganda.
  - MrJohz 4y ago
    Sorry, I think we're talking cross purposes somewhat. I don't think that what you've described is in of itself harmful, and I don't think I've made that claim. I do think that the language used in the original tweet does a bad job of "redirecting emotional responses" because it doesn't give the person a meaningful, useful task, nor is it even particularly pro-social. Whereas in the anecdote given in the article, the author was given a meaningful task to do, and was able to learn from that.

MrJohz 4y ago

I don't know why you think it's obviously false. The problem is that the child sees chores as arbitrary labour without value to the themselves, not realising that by serving the family they help themselves as well. That's something that every child has to learn - are you going to claim that a girl in this situation is going to go "whoopee, chores, that's really what makes my feminine brain tick"? I absolutely agree that we need adult male role models to tell male adolescents that they need to take care of others. We need it for women too, but that's a less pressing need for most of our societies. I suspect that the original tweeter would agree to that too. But the point the tweet was making is that "look after your mother while I'm gone" is not that. As I pointed out in the comment, it (a) doesn't give any actionable instruction or help, and (b) doesn't come from a decision made by the whole community. Instead, it's just a harmful reinforcement of the idea that men have an inherent "protector" role that defines their identity.

torstenvl 4y ago
Do you have any evidentiary support for the idea that redirecting testosterone-based emotional responses in a pro-social (protective) rather than in an anti-social (aggressive) way is "harmful"? HN is not the place for propaganda.
- MrJohz 4y ago
  Sorry, I think we're talking cross purposes somewhat. I don't think that what you've described is in of itself harmful, and I don't think I've made that claim. I do think that the language used in the original tweet does a bad job of "redirecting emotional responses" because it doesn't give the person a meaningful, useful task, nor is it even particularly pro-social. Whereas in the anecdote given in the article, the author was given a meaningful task to do, and was able to learn from that.