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> When called out, they made the mistake of using dogwhistle phrasing (“clown world“ is very specific to one group) that you don’t really see much outside of /p

> When called out, they made the mistake of using dogwhistle phrasing (“clown world“ is very specific to one group) that you don’t really see much outside of /pol/ and its ilk and in threads where those folks bravely venture out to try to leak /pol/ chat to other forums. WTF. I don't even know what you're talking about. What the hell is /pol/? I learned about the "clown world" term on Twitter. And apparently, its meaning is not even what I thought it was, according to another poster. Sorry for striking down one of your absurd theories once more. > As an aside, I almost never hear “whites” outside of a context wherein someone is airing a grievance on behalf of the group that’s otherwise known as “white people” I am not a native English speaker, so sorry for not knowing about all the connotations of how words are used in your country. Whites/white people. It's all the same to me (in my native language, at least). I didn't even know "woke" had such negative connotations, until I went and quoted that from Wikipedia (which is why I clarified that I didn't mean it pejoratively). > poster abandons their position and falls back to “saying stuff they think will ingratiate you to them.” What are you even talking about? How did I abandon my position?! And how the hell am I ingratiating myself to whoever is reading when I clearly criticized and almost certainly pissed off both right-wingers and left-wingers?! Let me say it again so that it's crystal clear to you: 1. Anti-white racism is racism. 2. There are more racist right-wing people than left-wing people, even when excluding the far-right. 3. Anti-black racism is a much more prevalent (and therefore significant) issue than anti-white racism. Believe it or not, I hold all of these opinions at the same time. Mind-blowing, right? I'm sorry that you don't believe that it's possible for someone to have all these opinions or that you think they are "poop" (using your term) or whatever the hell you think. I think you have severe issues, to be honest. And it's clear to me that I've been wasting my time trying to engage and have a constructive conversation with you, so don't expect any more responses from me.

braingenious 4y ago
Postscript: (Still not interacting with wizeman) This poster that has just only learned of the word “woke” according to them but also wants to educate folks about it has a lot to say in other threads! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34415794 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34415794 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34418890 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34418890 The only reason why I’m revisiting this is to point out that they have (as I’ve pointed out) gone through with the natural pivot from misunderstood to persecuted. It’s a very simple playbook that can be followed by anyone. It gets kind of like the fedex arrow once you notice it! The biggest part of this color-by-numbers silliness is the demand at every step that the opponent debates their positions (which involves re-stating them). If a far right person refuses to expand on their position and demands that you explain why they’re wrong, you’re looking at bait! Namaste!
- wizeman 4y ago
  > This poster that has just only learned of the word “woke” according to them I only just learned about how the term is used as an insult in your language. Again, I'm not from your country, so we don't necessarily use it the same way here (as an imported word), capiche? But apart from the word itself, we do have definitely imported the same ideology here, as well as the crazies who take it to an extreme. I'm not saying they're like you, but I'm not saying they're not, either. (We have many right-wing crazies too, mind you! I'm not saying only the lefties have crazies) So again, I used "woke" as a shorthand for the ideology. It's a word I have seen used many many times before, just like any other English word you can pick from any of my comments. The term "woke" is used in contexts such as this one to describe this type of ideology, in many countries including the US. Hell, look at how this word is used in the Vice article this HN post is about. Does that mean the Vice article is insulting all woke people, since it's using that word and that word is now an insult? Or perhaps is it that "woke" is not always used as an insult, but it has been (and still continues to be) simply used to describe this ideology, despite of the negative connotations it has apparently acquired recently? This is something you would likely understand if you were actually trying to make any effort whatsoever. Does all of this mean I can't educate someone on what the word means (i.e. its usual meaning), especially when I have access to sources of truth about the definition of the word in your language? A word, again, that has been exported to many other countries and languages... like wifi, sandwich or shampoo. Note that I'm not insisting on using the term "woke". I can see that it triggers some people, so I'm not likely to use it as much in the future. I only care about discussing the ideology itself, I don't really care what the hell it's actually called, be it in your language or any other. That said, obviously it's good to have clear names (especially without negative connotations) to describe concepts, otherwise it's hard to have constructive dialogues. As you can see from other posts, even when the definition of a term is clear, some people still misunderstand you. > If a far right person refuses to expand on their position and demands that you explain why they’re wrong, you’re looking at bait! Look out, there's another person behind you who doesn't believe in racism (including against white people)! Which means, he is far, far-right, obviously! Oh God, the horror! Careful, he might bite you!
  - akiselev 4y ago

braingenious 4y ago

Postscript: (Still not interacting with wizeman) This poster that has just only learned of the word “woke” according to them but also wants to educate folks about it has a lot to say in other threads! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34415794 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34415794 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34418890 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34418890 The only reason why I’m revisiting this is to point out that they have (as I’ve pointed out) gone through with the natural pivot from misunderstood to persecuted. It’s a very simple playbook that can be followed by anyone. It gets kind of like the fedex arrow once you notice it! The biggest part of this color-by-numbers silliness is the demand at every step that the opponent debates their positions (which involves re-stating them). If a far right person refuses to expand on their position and demands that you explain why they’re wrong, you’re looking at bait! Namaste!

wizeman 4y ago
> This poster that has just only learned of the word “woke” according to them I only just learned about how the term is used as an insult in your language. Again, I'm not from your country, so we don't necessarily use it the same way here (as an imported word), capiche? But apart from the word itself, we do have definitely imported the same ideology here, as well as the crazies who take it to an extreme. I'm not saying they're like you, but I'm not saying they're not, either. (We have many right-wing crazies too, mind you! I'm not saying only the lefties have crazies) So again, I used "woke" as a shorthand for the ideology. It's a word I have seen used many many times before, just like any other English word you can pick from any of my comments. The term "woke" is used in contexts such as this one to describe this type of ideology, in many countries including the US. Hell, look at how this word is used in the Vice article this HN post is about. Does that mean the Vice article is insulting all woke people, since it's using that word and that word is now an insult? Or perhaps is it that "woke" is not always used as an insult, but it has been (and still continues to be) simply used to describe this ideology, despite of the negative connotations it has apparently acquired recently? This is something you would likely understand if you were actually trying to make any effort whatsoever. Does all of this mean I can't educate someone on what the word means (i.e. its usual meaning), especially when I have access to sources of truth about the definition of the word in your language? A word, again, that has been exported to many other countries and languages... like wifi, sandwich or shampoo. Note that I'm not insisting on using the term "woke". I can see that it triggers some people, so I'm not likely to use it as much in the future. I only care about discussing the ideology itself, I don't really care what the hell it's actually called, be it in your language or any other. That said, obviously it's good to have clear names (especially without negative connotations) to describe concepts, otherwise it's hard to have constructive dialogues. As you can see from other posts, even when the definition of a term is clear, some people still misunderstand you. > If a far right person refuses to expand on their position and demands that you explain why they’re wrong, you’re looking at bait! Look out, there's another person behind you who doesn't believe in racism (including against white people)! Which means, he is far, far-right, obviously! Oh God, the horror! Careful, he might bite you!
- akiselev 4y ago