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It seems like most new cars have automatic braking at this point, possibly excepting Chryslers and Land Rovers: https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/nhtsa-annou

by vba616 4y ago

It seems like most new cars have automatic braking at this point, possibly excepting Chryslers and Land Rovers: https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/nhtsa-announces-2020-update-aeb-installation-20-automakers https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/nhtsa-announces-2020-up... Based on anecdata, I'd expect an economy car from a boring "legacy" automaker to brake sharply at nothing about once in two years. I haven't seen anything in the reporting on Tesla that would shed light on whether they do it more often, or in more dangerous situations.

olliej 4y ago
Tesla is not selling emergency braking, and this is not emergency braking. They are selling "self driving cars", and this was a "self driving car" changing lanes in traffic and braking suddenly for no reason. Emergency braking is _very_ simple tech, and is actually robust. We have a lot of evidence that they do: the article even mentions large numbers of sudden braking complaints. For other manufacturers this has resulted in recalls, and generally is due to electrical faults rather than the computer deciding it's time to stop. We also have a good idea of why: Tesla is notorious for favoring computer vision over lidar, and their multiple fatalities involve the camera being unable to distinguish walls, barriers, trucks, emergency vehicles, from empty road. Yet Tesla is permitted to continue selling them, with that behavior and without fixing the problems. The aforementioned unexpected/sudden braking from other companies had recalls, and those recalls were required to ensure the fault could not happen again.
- vba616 4y ago
  >Emergency braking is _very_ simple tech, and is actually robust. I didn't mean emergency braking only. I meant automatic braking to include non-emergency braking such as (but not limited to) active cruise control that can stop a car. Both emergency braking and milder braking can and do happen on a normal non-Tesla car when the (some) computer gets confused. Electrical faults aside. On a normal car it might happen at intervals of a year or two, so the thing I'm curious about is whether there is some evidence it's more frequent or otherwise worse on Teslas should I ever be shopping for one. I think the quality of the hardware is only loosely related, because engineering decisions, some of which are embodied in software, could make a big difference. If I was in charge of making hard decisions about a trade-off between phantom braking and avoiding accidents, I would say "don't make it panic brake until slightly after the computer figures a collision is unavoidable" since this still provides the most important value of reducing injuries. But I don't know if automakers really operate this way. Maybe they know better, or maybe there are bad incentives. And if some of them do operate this way, but others have the hubris to think they can prevent accidents and phantom braking without tradeoffs, I'd really like to be able to make an informed choice.

by vba616 4y ago

olliej 4y ago

Tesla is not selling emergency braking, and this is not emergency braking. They are selling "self driving cars", and this was a "self driving car" changing lanes in traffic and braking suddenly for no reason. Emergency braking is _very_ simple tech, and is actually robust. We have a lot of evidence that they do: the article even mentions large numbers of sudden braking complaints. For other manufacturers this has resulted in recalls, and generally is due to electrical faults rather than the computer deciding it's time to stop. We also have a good idea of why: Tesla is notorious for favoring computer vision over lidar, and their multiple fatalities involve the camera being unable to distinguish walls, barriers, trucks, emergency vehicles, from empty road. Yet Tesla is permitted to continue selling them, with that behavior and without fixing the problems. The aforementioned unexpected/sudden braking from other companies had recalls, and those recalls were required to ensure the fault could not happen again.

vba616 4y ago
>Emergency braking is _very_ simple tech, and is actually robust. I didn't mean emergency braking only. I meant automatic braking to include non-emergency braking such as (but not limited to) active cruise control that can stop a car. Both emergency braking and milder braking can and do happen on a normal non-Tesla car when the (some) computer gets confused. Electrical faults aside. On a normal car it might happen at intervals of a year or two, so the thing I'm curious about is whether there is some evidence it's more frequent or otherwise worse on Teslas should I ever be shopping for one. I think the quality of the hardware is only loosely related, because engineering decisions, some of which are embodied in software, could make a big difference. If I was in charge of making hard decisions about a trade-off between phantom braking and avoiding accidents, I would say "don't make it panic brake until slightly after the computer figures a collision is unavoidable" since this still provides the most important value of reducing injuries. But I don't know if automakers really operate this way. Maybe they know better, or maybe there are bad incentives. And if some of them do operate this way, but others have the hubris to think they can prevent accidents and phantom braking without tradeoffs, I'd really like to be able to make an informed choice.