4 ms·

I never get all the Apple fanboy love for their trackpads. They're okay, but ultimately they are still trackpads. They still erroneously track input when you

by moeris 4y ago

I never get all the Apple fanboy love for their trackpads. They're okay, but ultimately they are still trackpads. They still erroneously track input when you brush against them the wrong way. I prefer the Thinkpad trackpoint by far. (And an actual mouse is even better.)

jojobas 4y ago
At this point Apple could make buttplugs and a HN post about the trackpoint would have some ecstatic comments about them.
aikinai 4y ago
It's probably from people that switched to Macs back when there wasn't a single decent non-Apple trackpad and it was like jumping forward a decade in input experience. I assume there are some good non-Apple trackpads these days, but honestly wouldn't know for sure since I'm one of those people that switched back in the day and almost never use non-Macs now. So my default assumption will always be that non-Apple laptops all still come with tiny little non-responsive trackpads with bad texturing. For the palm rejection, I almost never have erroneous inputs, and I think that's true for most people. And it's not that I don't physically mistouch; I realized how important and active the filtering is one time when I was doing something weird with my laptop that disabled palm rejection (maybe using my MacBook as a Bluetooth input for another computer?) and it was basically unusable from all the erroneous inputs.
- sublinear 4y ago
  Some designs literally sidestep the problem by just moving the trackpad to the side instead of keeping it below the keyboard. The Logitech K400 is very cheap and has exactly the kind of small and trashy touchpad you speak of, yet I never have unintentional touches or clicks with it.
shaunsingh0207 4y ago
From my personal experience, modern apple trackpads are still ahead of the competition, but not leagues ahead. They're still massive, and the whole "Force Touch" thing is very nice. Both being able to click anywhere on the trackpad, including the top where the hinge would usually be, and the "press harder to do something" functionality is more useful than I thought it would be. I find that I can keep my hand on the home row and just reach over my thumb for trackpad use 90% of the time on the MacBook, whereas with the xps and razor blade the top 10-20% of the trackpad feels unusable (and they're pretty small)
jillesvangurp 4y ago
I have never seen a non Apple device with a trackpad that is even in the same league as Apple trackpads. There's Apple and everybody else. The Lenovo ones in particular are hot garbage in comparison. Poor sensitivity, tiny surface area, low resolution, etc. Just no comparison whatsoever. The brushing thing is not an issue. Never happens for me. I brush it plenty. But never hard enough to register as a click. Of course the 'click' is not mechanical. But it does require some force. So all my clicks are 100% intentional. The nipple thing is a stopgap solution. Most lenovo users I know have a wireless mouse that they use almost exclusively. Neither the trackpad nor the nipple thing is acceptable to them, appaently. I have a Samsung linux laptop. Same thing. The trackpad is a piece of shit so I use a logitech mouse with it. With all of my macs in the last 15 years, I never felt the need to connect any external keyboard or mouse to them. It's that good. I actually connected an Apple Magic trackpad 2 to my Samsung laptop just to see if that makes a difference. It's great. Software support in Linux for that is fine. Silky smooth, responsive, gestures, everything. It's the trackpads in laptops that are terrible, not the software support for them. Almost universally every non Apple laptop out there has terrible trackpads. The reason I own that magic 2 trackpad is that I actually prefer using that over a mouse with my imac.
- b112 4y ago
  The brushing thing is not an issue. Never happens for me. I brush it plenty. But never hard enough to register as a click. Of course the 'click' is not mechanical. But it does require some force. So all my clicks are 100% intentional. Parent said input, not click. It is annoying, and bothersome for the mouse to move, even without a click.
  - jillesvangurp 4y ago
    It's not a thing I notice. On my mac, the cursor actually disappears when I type. My Linux Samsung laptop has a lousy trackpad but there too, it doesn't seem to get in the way of typing. Do Lenovo users disable their trackpads completely?
_gabe_ 4y ago
I really hate Apple, but had to switch because that's the predominant laptop at my company. The HP trackpad sucked, and I had an actual mouse because there was no way I would use that trackpad. I mean seriously, who thought it was a good idea to make right click a tiny little magic area that you have to press just right in order to activate it?? I literally don't ever use my mouse when using my Apple work laptop now. I don't understand why multi-touch and gestures aren't a thing on every trackpad. I can't speak to other laptop brands so maybe it's better for those. My 2016 Lenovo's trackpad wasn't something I ever used regularly either. I had a mouse for that computer as well because the trackpad never felt good.
- Izkata 4y ago
  > I don't understand why multi-touch and gestures aren't a thing on every trackpad. I was under the impression that multi-touch has been standard for years. I've had it on Dell and Lenovo in the past few years, and I think my Asus a decade ago. And aren't gestures a software thing?
nortonham 4y ago
it's the gestures. once you learn the gestures you start realizing what everyone else is talking about. I've owned thinkpads, and I love the old keyboards and trackpoints. I was always a thinkpad/linux/bsd user (still am). I have my first macbook (air m1), and the way gestures work on macbook means I don't miss the trackpoint.
henry_viii 4y ago
For me, what makes MacBook trackpads stand out are 3 things: 1) The acceleration. The faster you move your finger, the farther you can fling out the cursor. For comparison, my ThinkPad's trackpad simulates a trackball i.e. it doesn't have acceleration, only inertia. 2) 3-finger drag-and-dropping. As far I know, the MacBook is the only laptop that supports this. Also you can simulate a left mouse button press-and-hold by resting 3 fingers on the trackpad. 3) The feeling. The glass surface make it feel like you're sliding your fingers on butter.
- fragmede 4y ago
  I agree that Apple's done a great job with making their trackpads ergonomic. I can't actually recite all the gestures I use on a daily basis on it. 1) I don't know what software stack you're using (I'm on Debian Linux) but acceleration is a supported setting on both the TrackPoint and the TrackPad. Personally I find acceleration vital to them being usable. On Windows there's QL mouse accel filter to customize the curve to an advanced level. On macOS there's an older software called ControllerMate that let you set a custom acceleration curve. I don't know if it works on modern systems though. 2) I don't know what 3-finger DND is because I use 1 finger to DND. Mind explaining a bit more? I've got 3 fingers bound to Mission Control which might be a default and I find quite handy.
  - sbuk 4y ago
    It's actually an accessibility feature. In Ventura, go to System Settings > Accessibility > Pointer Control. There you'll find Dragging Style. Options are 'Without Drag Lock', 'With Drag Lock' and 'Three-Finger Drag'. It works exactly as you think; use three finger touch to drag anything. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/unac899/mac https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/unac899/mac
  - henry_viii 4y ago
    I have a ThinkPad X1 Carbon gen 3 (2015) running Windows 10 with the Synaptics drivers. Thank you for the info on Linux and Windows. Will make sure to enable the acceleration on the laptop. About the 3-finger drag-and-drop - it used to be on by default. Now you have to enable it manually since 3-finger swipes are bound to Mission Control and Expose. Once you enable it, Mission Control and Expose will be bound to 4-finger swipes. To enable it: - Go to Settings > Accessibility > Pointer Control > Trackpad Options... - tick the box 'Enable dragging' - select 'three finger drag' Demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LFzxpT8mFk&t=129s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LFzxpT8mFk&t=129s You don't need to worry about running out of space when dragging with 3 fingers - once you start dragging with 3 fingers, you can leave 2 fingers on the trackpad and keep dragging with your 3rd finger.

by moeris 4y ago

jojobas 4y ago

At this point Apple could make buttplugs and a HN post about the trackpoint would have some ecstatic comments about them.

aikinai 4y ago

It's probably from people that switched to Macs back when there wasn't a single decent non-Apple trackpad and it was like jumping forward a decade in input experience. I assume there are some good non-Apple trackpads these days, but honestly wouldn't know for sure since I'm one of those people that switched back in the day and almost never use non-Macs now. So my default assumption will always be that non-Apple laptops all still come with tiny little non-responsive trackpads with bad texturing. For the palm rejection, I almost never have erroneous inputs, and I think that's true for most people. And it's not that I don't physically mistouch; I realized how important and active the filtering is one time when I was doing something weird with my laptop that disabled palm rejection (maybe using my MacBook as a Bluetooth input for another computer?) and it was basically unusable from all the erroneous inputs.

sublinear 4y ago
Some designs literally sidestep the problem by just moving the trackpad to the side instead of keeping it below the keyboard. The Logitech K400 is very cheap and has exactly the kind of small and trashy touchpad you speak of, yet I never have unintentional touches or clicks with it.

shaunsingh0207 4y ago

From my personal experience, modern apple trackpads are still ahead of the competition, but not leagues ahead. They're still massive, and the whole "Force Touch" thing is very nice. Both being able to click anywhere on the trackpad, including the top where the hinge would usually be, and the "press harder to do something" functionality is more useful than I thought it would be. I find that I can keep my hand on the home row and just reach over my thumb for trackpad use 90% of the time on the MacBook, whereas with the xps and razor blade the top 10-20% of the trackpad feels unusable (and they're pretty small)

jillesvangurp 4y ago

I have never seen a non Apple device with a trackpad that is even in the same league as Apple trackpads. There's Apple and everybody else. The Lenovo ones in particular are hot garbage in comparison. Poor sensitivity, tiny surface area, low resolution, etc. Just no comparison whatsoever. The brushing thing is not an issue. Never happens for me. I brush it plenty. But never hard enough to register as a click. Of course the 'click' is not mechanical. But it does require some force. So all my clicks are 100% intentional. The nipple thing is a stopgap solution. Most lenovo users I know have a wireless mouse that they use almost exclusively. Neither the trackpad nor the nipple thing is acceptable to them, appaently. I have a Samsung linux laptop. Same thing. The trackpad is a piece of shit so I use a logitech mouse with it. With all of my macs in the last 15 years, I never felt the need to connect any external keyboard or mouse to them. It's that good. I actually connected an Apple Magic trackpad 2 to my Samsung laptop just to see if that makes a difference. It's great. Software support in Linux for that is fine. Silky smooth, responsive, gestures, everything. It's the trackpads in laptops that are terrible, not the software support for them. Almost universally every non Apple laptop out there has terrible trackpads. The reason I own that magic 2 trackpad is that I actually prefer using that over a mouse with my imac.

b112 4y ago
The brushing thing is not an issue. Never happens for me. I brush it plenty. But never hard enough to register as a click. Of course the 'click' is not mechanical. But it does require some force. So all my clicks are 100% intentional. Parent said input, not click. It is annoying, and bothersome for the mouse to move, even without a click.
- jillesvangurp 4y ago
  It's not a thing I notice. On my mac, the cursor actually disappears when I type. My Linux Samsung laptop has a lousy trackpad but there too, it doesn't seem to get in the way of typing. Do Lenovo users disable their trackpads completely?

_gabe_ 4y ago

I really hate Apple, but had to switch because that's the predominant laptop at my company. The HP trackpad sucked, and I had an actual mouse because there was no way I would use that trackpad. I mean seriously, who thought it was a good idea to make right click a tiny little magic area that you have to press just right in order to activate it?? I literally don't ever use my mouse when using my Apple work laptop now. I don't understand why multi-touch and gestures aren't a thing on every trackpad. I can't speak to other laptop brands so maybe it's better for those. My 2016 Lenovo's trackpad wasn't something I ever used regularly either. I had a mouse for that computer as well because the trackpad never felt good.

Izkata 4y ago
> I don't understand why multi-touch and gestures aren't a thing on every trackpad. I was under the impression that multi-touch has been standard for years. I've had it on Dell and Lenovo in the past few years, and I think my Asus a decade ago. And aren't gestures a software thing?

nortonham 4y ago

it's the gestures. once you learn the gestures you start realizing what everyone else is talking about. I've owned thinkpads, and I love the old keyboards and trackpoints. I was always a thinkpad/linux/bsd user (still am). I have my first macbook (air m1), and the way gestures work on macbook means I don't miss the trackpoint.

henry_viii 4y ago

For me, what makes MacBook trackpads stand out are 3 things: 1) The acceleration. The faster you move your finger, the farther you can fling out the cursor. For comparison, my ThinkPad's trackpad simulates a trackball i.e. it doesn't have acceleration, only inertia. 2) 3-finger drag-and-dropping. As far I know, the MacBook is the only laptop that supports this. Also you can simulate a left mouse button press-and-hold by resting 3 fingers on the trackpad. 3) The feeling. The glass surface make it feel like you're sliding your fingers on butter.

fragmede 4y ago
I agree that Apple's done a great job with making their trackpads ergonomic. I can't actually recite all the gestures I use on a daily basis on it. 1) I don't know what software stack you're using (I'm on Debian Linux) but acceleration is a supported setting on both the TrackPoint and the TrackPad. Personally I find acceleration vital to them being usable. On Windows there's QL mouse accel filter to customize the curve to an advanced level. On macOS there's an older software called ControllerMate that let you set a custom acceleration curve. I don't know if it works on modern systems though. 2) I don't know what 3-finger DND is because I use 1 finger to DND. Mind explaining a bit more? I've got 3 fingers bound to Mission Control which might be a default and I find quite handy.
- sbuk 4y ago
  It's actually an accessibility feature. In Ventura, go to System Settings > Accessibility > Pointer Control. There you'll find Dragging Style. Options are 'Without Drag Lock', 'With Drag Lock' and 'Three-Finger Drag'. It works exactly as you think; use three finger touch to drag anything. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/unac899/mac https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/unac899/mac
- henry_viii 4y ago
  I have a ThinkPad X1 Carbon gen 3 (2015) running Windows 10 with the Synaptics drivers. Thank you for the info on Linux and Windows. Will make sure to enable the acceleration on the laptop. About the 3-finger drag-and-drop - it used to be on by default. Now you have to enable it manually since 3-finger swipes are bound to Mission Control and Expose. Once you enable it, Mission Control and Expose will be bound to 4-finger swipes. To enable it: - Go to Settings > Accessibility > Pointer Control > Trackpad Options... - tick the box 'Enable dragging' - select 'three finger drag' Demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LFzxpT8mFk&t=129s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LFzxpT8mFk&t=129s You don't need to worry about running out of space when dragging with 3 fingers - once you start dragging with 3 fingers, you can leave 2 fingers on the trackpad and keep dragging with your 3rd finger.