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I downvoted you because I know you (and the Economist) are wrong. I'm in Paris, and I've seen downsizing at a startup. They've fired dozens of people with a wee
by ovi256 18y ago
I downvoted you because I know you (and the Economist) are wrong. I'm in Paris, and I've seen downsizing at a startup. They've fired dozens of people with a week's notice, and 2 or 3 months severance pay, AS PER their contracts.
It's NOT THE LAW that imposes this (the law imposes nil severance), but the contracts - they had this clause. Furthermore, severance pay is only due for termination that is outside the employee's control. That is, if the employer downsizes.
If you don't come to work or hit you boss, you can be fired INSTANTLY with NO severence pay - like anywhere in the world. This is rare however, I've seen it only once for supposedly sub-par performance.
- DanielBMarkham 18y agoVery interesting. We always hear of standard benefits for workers in France, like extended yearly vacation time. How does that work? Is it possible that by working for a startup under a contract that your experience is different than the rest of your countrymen? Just trying to figure out the discrepancies.
- davidw 18y agoMany European countries have tried to introduce different ways of being 'flexible'. Often there is a cutoff for company size, the age of the employee, that kind of thing. A small company may have less requirements in terms of hiring/firing. Also, in recent years, various countries have attempted to introduce different types of contracts. By way of example, Italy has 'standard' contracts, which are the 'real difficult to fire' kind, and the new flexible sort, which are meant to be used for more flexible positions. What has happened in practice is that newer workers, wherever possible, are hired up with the flexible contracts, which generally offer nothing in the way of severance pay or anything - less than you'd get in the US in most 'good' jobs. Older workers are hired with the standard contracts. This creates a two-tier system with lots of unhealthy side effects. I have no idea how the details work out in France.
- DanielBMarkham 18y agoWe're seeing a similar system playing out over here in some union environments, specifically airline pilots. The "old guard" managed significant concessions from industry, but the newer guys end up with a much less competitive package. So you end up with a two-tiered situation. Doesn't seem like that is a healthy situation in general. Speaking of more complex ways of categorizing and rewarding business and employees reminds me of my recent interaction with a local government that had a "start-up" type program in place. I asked about office space and maybe some shared services -- something like an incubator. They were very friendly: I immediately received a 40-page packet by email which was so detailed as to be incomprehensible. (For instance, parking fees were waived up to a certain point, or alternatively fees could be reduced without a limit if I used an office that was farther away). It was like reading a report put together by every aspect of local government, each trying to help but actually making the presentation so complicated it would take an expert system to use or compare it to other offers.
- davidw 18y ago> We're seeing a similar system playing out over here in some union environments It's more of a contract/union thing in the US, though. In Italy, 'standard' contracts are more or less legislated. Most likely that occurs elsewhere as well, although "it's complicated". Germany, until recently, apparently did not have a minimum wage, something that really surprised me.
- vaksel 18y agomaybe the reason is because the pic talks about someone who worked 20 years at a company?