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> Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as sexism You are right, it also encompasses this meaning. Rega

> Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as sexism You are right, it also encompasses this meaning. Regardless, my point still stands. > It’s kind of odd, it’s almost as if there is a group of right wing culture warriors that insist that anyone that doesn’t use their artificially constructed pejorative the same way that they do is part of some vast gay communist conspiracy. I don't think it's an artificially constructed pejorative, according to Wikipedia the term seems to come from the 1930s "referring to an awareness of the social and political issues affecting African Americans." I think it only started to be used in a negative way once all the clown world stuff came into full strength.

sli 4y ago
If "woke" is going to be bucketed into purely leftist ideology, which is already oversimplifying it as progressivism or simply being anti-racist isn't strictly leftist, then "clown world" is going to be bucketed as a neo-Nazi dogwhistle. Its origin on the internet was tightly bound to the "Honkler" meme, which was a neo-Nazi dogwhistle so thinly veiled that it was only denied by people with "1488" in their usernames. There was essentially no real attempt to try and present it as something else. Is spreading a neo-Nazi dogwhistle really a good push back against anti-racism?
- wizeman 4y ago
  > Its origin on the internet was tightly bound to the "Honkler" meme, which was a neo-Nazi dogwhistle so thinly veiled that it was only denied by people with "1488" in their usernames. There was essentially no real attempt to try and present it as something else. > Is spreading a neo-Nazi dogwhistle really a good push back against anti-racism? lol, I have to admit, assuming you are right, I wasn't aware of the origin of the term "clown world". I guess I shouldn't use that term, then. To be clear, I was trying to refer to the leftist ideology taken to an extreme, such that you try to be so anti-racist that you become racist yourself (against whites, for example). Or you try to be so anti-sexist, that you become sexist (against men). Or that you are no longer allowed to use any word whatsoever because every word offends some snowflake of an individual. And also, of course, other extreme examples of behavior where it's clear that you're no longer contributing to a solution, but rather creating a new problem. There are many such recent examples of this kind of non-sense.
  - akiselev 4y ago
    I was skeptical about the GP's alleged etymology about clown world but... [1] > The alt-right sense emerged from The Honkler, a version of Pepe the Frog meme featuring a red clown nose and rainbow wig, characterized as honking a bicycle horn whenever liberals speak. That meme is associated with the use of honk honk ("HH") as a dog whistle for heil Hitler. It is worse than I thought. At least "woke" has to be used "ironically" to be coopted. There's literally no where to go with "heil hitler" - it's written right on the tin. Why is our discourse polluted with these dog whistles? [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/clown_world https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/clown_world
    - braingenious 4y ago
      > Why is our discourse polluted with these dog whistles? Because neo-nazis have essentially perfected coopting “respectability” politics in public online discourse. Calling out dogwhistles can have a nasty blowback effect because they’ve manufactured cover (eg “I’m just quoting what [a party with unknown intentions] wrote on wikipedia!”) that gives them footing to claim misinterpretation at the mildest, or outright persecution in other cases. HN is actually a really interesting case for this stuff, because the Primary Sin here is “violating decorum”. If I wanted to A/B test hateful dogwhistles, this site would be the perfect place. Nobody is allowed to post “Fuck off nazi/tankie/[insert other toxic group]” Respectability and Decorum are how we open the door to obvious but just-subtle-enough crap like that.
      - braingenious 4y ago
        I have a follow up post to this downthread. You can find it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34423773 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34423773
  - braingenious 4y ago
    > To be clear, I was trying to refer to the leftist ideology taken to an extreme, such that you try to be so anti-racist that you become racist yourself (against whites, for example). “The REAL nazis are people that don’t buy into the great replacement theory!” This isn’t a dogwhistle, this is a foghorn.

sli 4y ago

If "woke" is going to be bucketed into purely leftist ideology, which is already oversimplifying it as progressivism or simply being anti-racist isn't strictly leftist, then "clown world" is going to be bucketed as a neo-Nazi dogwhistle. Its origin on the internet was tightly bound to the "Honkler" meme, which was a neo-Nazi dogwhistle so thinly veiled that it was only denied by people with "1488" in their usernames. There was essentially no real attempt to try and present it as something else. Is spreading a neo-Nazi dogwhistle really a good push back against anti-racism?

wizeman 4y ago
> Its origin on the internet was tightly bound to the "Honkler" meme, which was a neo-Nazi dogwhistle so thinly veiled that it was only denied by people with "1488" in their usernames. There was essentially no real attempt to try and present it as something else. > Is spreading a neo-Nazi dogwhistle really a good push back against anti-racism? lol, I have to admit, assuming you are right, I wasn't aware of the origin of the term "clown world". I guess I shouldn't use that term, then. To be clear, I was trying to refer to the leftist ideology taken to an extreme, such that you try to be so anti-racist that you become racist yourself (against whites, for example). Or you try to be so anti-sexist, that you become sexist (against men). Or that you are no longer allowed to use any word whatsoever because every word offends some snowflake of an individual. And also, of course, other extreme examples of behavior where it's clear that you're no longer contributing to a solution, but rather creating a new problem. There are many such recent examples of this kind of non-sense.
- akiselev 4y ago
  I was skeptical about the GP's alleged etymology about clown world but... [1] > The alt-right sense emerged from The Honkler, a version of Pepe the Frog meme featuring a red clown nose and rainbow wig, characterized as honking a bicycle horn whenever liberals speak. That meme is associated with the use of honk honk ("HH") as a dog whistle for heil Hitler. It is worse than I thought. At least "woke" has to be used "ironically" to be coopted. There's literally no where to go with "heil hitler" - it's written right on the tin. Why is our discourse polluted with these dog whistles? [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/clown_world https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/clown_world
  - braingenious 4y ago
    > Why is our discourse polluted with these dog whistles? Because neo-nazis have essentially perfected coopting “respectability” politics in public online discourse. Calling out dogwhistles can have a nasty blowback effect because they’ve manufactured cover (eg “I’m just quoting what [a party with unknown intentions] wrote on wikipedia!”) that gives them footing to claim misinterpretation at the mildest, or outright persecution in other cases. HN is actually a really interesting case for this stuff, because the Primary Sin here is “violating decorum”. If I wanted to A/B test hateful dogwhistles, this site would be the perfect place. Nobody is allowed to post “Fuck off nazi/tankie/[insert other toxic group]” Respectability and Decorum are how we open the door to obvious but just-subtle-enough crap like that.
    - braingenious 4y ago
      I have a follow up post to this downthread. You can find it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34423773 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34423773
- braingenious 4y ago
  > To be clear, I was trying to refer to the leftist ideology taken to an extreme, such that you try to be so anti-racist that you become racist yourself (against whites, for example). “The REAL nazis are people that don’t buy into the great replacement theory!” This isn’t a dogwhistle, this is a foghorn.