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> "shorthand for American Left ideas involving identity politics and social justice" Where did you get that definition from? I searched for it in the article b

• wizeman 4y ago
  > Everything from Disney to M&Ms Sorry, I'm not sure what you're talking about here. > the very concept of pronouns in English have been called "woke" It's not "the very concept of pronouns" that is called "woke", what is "woke" in that context is using them inappropriately (or perhaps I should say, exaggerate their significance?) in order to impose a political agenda. This ties into the "identity politics" part of the meaning of "woke", which is not surprising because of what a pronoun is. > and as far as I'm concerned it's utterly meaningless at this point. Perhaps it is meaningless to you, but I assure you, the term is not meaningless for a lot of people.
  • pyth0 4y ago
    > Sorry, I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Those were two examples of the "outrage of the week" for fox news and right wing. But pick any week and it will be something new that is deemed "woke". > is using them inappropriately [...] in order to impose a political agenda. What agenda would that be? I don't see how someone wishing to be referred to by a specific pronoun should be political. In my mind it's just something I do to be respectful to people I interact with. > the term is not meaningless for a lot of people Outside of being a word used to put down people/ideas, what other purpose does it serve you? genuinely asking
    • wizeman 4y ago
      > What agenda would that be? Modern liberal politics. > I don't see how someone wishing to be referred to by a specific pronoun should be political. In my mind it's just something I do to be respectful to people I interact with. Well, ~99% of people don't need to specify the pronouns they wish to be called with because everybody already called them by those pronouns. So you should ask yourself: why are all these people putting their pronouns on their twitter profiles (or whatever)? It's clearly not to prevent other people from being disrespectful, because they weren't being disrespectful. So I think you are either being very naive or you are not being honest, because it's clear that the real point of specifying your pronouns is not to communicate to other people of what you wish to be called to prevent someone from being disrespectful (except for a minority of cases where people really do get confused). And furthermore, I also try to be respectful to the people I interact with. But in my view, respect is much more than calling someone him, her or whatever. In fact, even if someone would make an occasional mistake, it's not (and should not) be a big deal. It would certainly not be due to a lack of respect (assuming it's a genuine mistake). Note that nobody puts "please don't call me an asshole" in their Twitter bio, even though people are called assholes a lot more than they get their pronouns confused (again, except for a minority of people). So I'm fine if someone puts their pronouns in their bio if other people get them confused frequently. But even then, is that really the solution? Should that person also paint their pronouns in their forehead when they go outside, so that other people aren't disrespectful unintentionally? Or should they just learn to live with a minor grammatical annoyance? > Outside of being a word used to put down people/ideas, what other purpose does it serve you? genuinely asking It's a shorthand to describe modern liberal politics regarding identity politics, social justice, cancel culture, etc. Mind you, this is not the same liberal politics from a few decades ago. This is on a whole other level.
      • kashunstva 4y ago
        > Mind you, this is not the same liberal politics from a few decades ago. Might it be that those who occupy the left-of-centre political space hold more nuanced and varied positions than the sort of monolithic bloc that you would have readers believe? Yes, at both poles of the political axis there are those who strive to impose their own purity tests - whether it’s over pronouns, or guns, or immigration, or the proper lexicon to use, or marriage rights or whatever. But the rest of us can unbundle and reassemble policy positions for ourselves. I would hope this is true on the left and the right. But maybe it’s misplaced hope…
        • wizeman 4y ago
          I think (and hope) that you are correct. But I also think that, even though what you said can be true, that there has also been an increase in how these political positions are becoming more extreme (both on the left and on the right!) and how these extreme positions are becoming more frequent and accepted. I think that these extreme ideas/views and conflicts have been greatly amplified by social networks and information bubbles. Or maybe it's just that these extreme cases are more visible now, I don't know. But I am still quite worried that we are not heading in a good direction.
      • octernion 4y ago
        > So you should ask yourself: why are all these people putting their pronouns on their twitter profiles (or whatever)? It's clearly not to prevent other people from being disrespectful, because they weren't being disrespectful. You keep using a lot of words that basically boils down to "i really don't know what i'm talking about"
        • deleted 4y ago
          [deleted]