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Citing the very real and horrible history of ethnic discrimination to dismiss valid criticism of an authoritarian state is odd. It's also exactly what the CCP d

Citing the very real and horrible history of ethnic discrimination to dismiss valid criticism of an authoritarian state is odd. It's also exactly what the CCP does. https://twitter.com/nathanlawkc/status/1464891227694850049 https://twitter.com/nathanlawkc/status/1464891227694850049 https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/stopasianhate-chinese-diaspora-targeted-by-ccp-disinformation-campaign/ https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/stopasianhate-chinese-dias...

tarotuser 4y ago
I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. Looking narrowly at Tiktok, it doesn't really capture any more than what Google/Facebook/Instagram/Twitter/Linkedin all would. And regulators and orgs are OK with those systems hoovering up all the data they can. But when Tiktok showed up, it's the "China Restaurant Syndrome" all over again, with breathless scares about the evil Chinese stealing our data! Yes, China is a communist party-led state, according to the CIA world factbook. Yes, they have terrible abuses in their own history. Yes, they tamp down dissent via black-bagging and other abuses. Yes, they have and continue to do a genocide on the Uighurs (Muslims) in the country. The US peoples (separate from the government) also has a pretty bad case of anti-Asian and anti-Chinese sentiment. It was only a few days ago that some 50ish year old white lady stabbed an Asian 18 year old Indiana University student on the city bus, while stating to police “it would be one less person to blow up our country”. https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/16/us/indiana-university-student-stabbed-race/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/16/us/indiana-university-student... This isn't a case of whataboutism. What the Chinese government are doing to their own people is abhorrent, and likely worthy of being charged with crimes against humanity. AND people who hate Chinese for being Chinese heritage are also just as wrong. (And while we're at it, the USA has done its share of abhorrent stuff that it too should be charged with war crimes and crimes against humanity.) It may be simple to color every situation with black or white. But there's a great deal of nuance here. Why isn't UT-Austin also blocking Google or Facebook and related properties? Is that because they're USA based companies? Why only Tiktok? Because where I am, it appears to be founded in Sinophobia, pure and simple.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  He's trying to suggest that you are a Chinese agent who should be imprisoned. This is based on your "odd" opinions and your way of making arguments "exactly like the CCP does."
  - throwaway29812 4y ago
    I personally would care if my own rhetoric matched that of a government committing human rights atrocities against civilian populations on a scale not seen since WW2, but that's me. And your attempts to put words in my mouth about "Chinese agents" is showing your paranoia, and has nothing to do with me.
- flappyeagle 4y ago
  I would be more sympathetic to this line of argument if the CCP weren't currently banning every single US-based social network. Reciprocation is the only sensible response. This shouldn't be about race, or even data. It should be about trade policy.
  - filoleg 4y ago
    Well, CCP is an extremely authoritarian state, and plenty of their constituents would love to be able to access western apps/services. The cool thing is that US, for all its faults, is not like that, and shouldn't aspire to be like that. If the US constituents want to access TikTok, they should be able to, unless it poses some actual danger. An example of such danger would be what led to the recent ban on Huawei equipment in the networking infra, which I fully support. But TikTok ain't it, and this is just pure "well those nasty guys did this nasty thing, so we are gonna do the same nasty thing because uhhhh they did that thing!"
    - flappyeagle 4y ago
      Access to foreign goods and services is mediated by US foreign policy and trade policy. These are tools to be used to advantage our home country in the context of global competition. Aspiration needs to be balanced against the realities of dealing with a powerful adversary.
snapcaster 4y ago
Is it possible to say anything positive or even neutral about China without a comment like this? Do you respond to every mention of the US with links of all the war crimes? Can you address the content of the comment you're responding to? Can you demonstrate that TikTok causes more harm than MSG?
- throwaway29812 4y ago
  > Do you respond to every mention of the US with links of all the war crimes? If the private companies in question was complicit and potentially had a role in these crimes, yes I would. But to highlight your false equivalency, private industry in the US doesn't obey the US government, despite what the bizarre TwitterFiles PR campaign by right wing operatives is trying to tell you.
  - snapcaster 4y ago
    So what did TikTok do specifically?
    - throwaway29812 4y ago
      That question is answered by what we know. TikTok has the ability (and have been caught) tracking specific American citizens (journalists) https://www.wsj.com/articles/tiktok-employees-improperly-accessed-user-data-company-probe-finds-11671734031 https://www.wsj.com/articles/tiktok-employees-improperly-acc... TikTok as a Chinese company cannot refuse data requests on behalf of the Chinese government. TikTok's top security official resigned over this reality: https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/15/tiktoks-chief-security-officer-steps-down-amid-increased-scrutiny/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/15/tiktoks-chief-security-off... If you are naive enough to think an authoritarian government obsessed with digital surveillance would simply not use the largest data gathering tool on persons in the world, I don't know what to tell you. Considering what we know what they use their connections to Chinese companies for (theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/15/documents-link-huawei-uyghur-surveillance-projects-report-claims), it's fairly easy to connect the dots. People who are determined to not accept this reality won't expect it, i'm not going to play the "give me more proof" game if no proof will ever do.

tarotuser 4y ago

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. Looking narrowly at Tiktok, it doesn't really capture any more than what Google/Facebook/Instagram/Twitter/Linkedin all would. And regulators and orgs are OK with those systems hoovering up all the data they can. But when Tiktok showed up, it's the "China Restaurant Syndrome" all over again, with breathless scares about the evil Chinese stealing our data! Yes, China is a communist party-led state, according to the CIA world factbook. Yes, they have terrible abuses in their own history. Yes, they tamp down dissent via black-bagging and other abuses. Yes, they have and continue to do a genocide on the Uighurs (Muslims) in the country. The US peoples (separate from the government) also has a pretty bad case of anti-Asian and anti-Chinese sentiment. It was only a few days ago that some 50ish year old white lady stabbed an Asian 18 year old Indiana University student on the city bus, while stating to police “it would be one less person to blow up our country”. https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/16/us/indiana-university-student-stabbed-race/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/16/us/indiana-university-student... This isn't a case of whataboutism. What the Chinese government are doing to their own people is abhorrent, and likely worthy of being charged with crimes against humanity. AND people who hate Chinese for being Chinese heritage are also just as wrong. (And while we're at it, the USA has done its share of abhorrent stuff that it too should be charged with war crimes and crimes against humanity.) It may be simple to color every situation with black or white. But there's a great deal of nuance here. Why isn't UT-Austin also blocking Google or Facebook and related properties? Is that because they're USA based companies? Why only Tiktok? Because where I am, it appears to be founded in Sinophobia, pure and simple.

pessimizer 4y ago
He's trying to suggest that you are a Chinese agent who should be imprisoned. This is based on your "odd" opinions and your way of making arguments "exactly like the CCP does."
- throwaway29812 4y ago
  I personally would care if my own rhetoric matched that of a government committing human rights atrocities against civilian populations on a scale not seen since WW2, but that's me. And your attempts to put words in my mouth about "Chinese agents" is showing your paranoia, and has nothing to do with me.
flappyeagle 4y ago
I would be more sympathetic to this line of argument if the CCP weren't currently banning every single US-based social network. Reciprocation is the only sensible response. This shouldn't be about race, or even data. It should be about trade policy.
- filoleg 4y ago
  Well, CCP is an extremely authoritarian state, and plenty of their constituents would love to be able to access western apps/services. The cool thing is that US, for all its faults, is not like that, and shouldn't aspire to be like that. If the US constituents want to access TikTok, they should be able to, unless it poses some actual danger. An example of such danger would be what led to the recent ban on Huawei equipment in the networking infra, which I fully support. But TikTok ain't it, and this is just pure "well those nasty guys did this nasty thing, so we are gonna do the same nasty thing because uhhhh they did that thing!"
  - flappyeagle 4y ago
    Access to foreign goods and services is mediated by US foreign policy and trade policy. These are tools to be used to advantage our home country in the context of global competition. Aspiration needs to be balanced against the realities of dealing with a powerful adversary.

snapcaster 4y ago

Is it possible to say anything positive or even neutral about China without a comment like this? Do you respond to every mention of the US with links of all the war crimes? Can you address the content of the comment you're responding to? Can you demonstrate that TikTok causes more harm than MSG?

throwaway29812 4y ago
> Do you respond to every mention of the US with links of all the war crimes? If the private companies in question was complicit and potentially had a role in these crimes, yes I would. But to highlight your false equivalency, private industry in the US doesn't obey the US government, despite what the bizarre TwitterFiles PR campaign by right wing operatives is trying to tell you.
- snapcaster 4y ago
  So what did TikTok do specifically?
  - throwaway29812 4y ago
    That question is answered by what we know. TikTok has the ability (and have been caught) tracking specific American citizens (journalists) https://www.wsj.com/articles/tiktok-employees-improperly-accessed-user-data-company-probe-finds-11671734031 https://www.wsj.com/articles/tiktok-employees-improperly-acc... TikTok as a Chinese company cannot refuse data requests on behalf of the Chinese government. TikTok's top security official resigned over this reality: https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/15/tiktoks-chief-security-officer-steps-down-amid-increased-scrutiny/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/15/tiktoks-chief-security-off... If you are naive enough to think an authoritarian government obsessed with digital surveillance would simply not use the largest data gathering tool on persons in the world, I don't know what to tell you. Considering what we know what they use their connections to Chinese companies for (theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/15/documents-link-huawei-uyghur-surveillance-projects-report-claims), it's fairly easy to connect the dots. People who are determined to not accept this reality won't expect it, i'm not going to play the "give me more proof" game if no proof will ever do.