5 ms·

Why should the US allow the CCP to have free rein over user's data when the CCP bans US Tech companies from operating in China for the same reason?

CamperBob2 4y ago
Why shouldn't it be up to the user? Who asked the government? This is not how the Internet was supposed to work.
- bena 4y ago
  Would you rather know if it was up to the government or not know? Because the case with TikTok is that we do not know what the Chinese government is going to do with whatever it collects from the app. Or even if they do. Or anything really. Now, while I think banning TikTok's traffic on the campus network is more of a stunt than anything worthwhile. I do see the argument from banning TikTok and just about any other non-essential app from government issued mobile hardware. That's an area where you'd want to have as little possible surface area exposed as you can.
  - tsimionescu 4y ago
    This is about banning access to TikTok for client devices of a campus network. It has nothing to do with banning the TikTok app on government-issued phones.
    - bena 4y ago
      I can imagine that that's the argument they're coming from. So comparing and contrasting the situations isn't out of line.
  - ALittleLight 4y ago
    If you don't like TikTok or are concerned about the Chinese government collecting information on you, those are excellent reasons for you not to use TikTok. But what do your preferences have to do with the freedom of other people?
    - bena 4y ago
      But it's also UT-Austin's network. They should have some say in what traffic the allow on it.
      - filoleg 4y ago
        You are explaining why UT-Austin should have the power of say in what traffic they allow on their network, which I agree with they should have. It can be used for many legitimate things, including blocking malicious endpoints associated with DDoS, blocking websites with known malware, stuff that very negatively affects the campus network infra, etc. However, you aren't explaining why UT-Austin should get to decide which apps (that don't affect network operations or campus device security) people can use on their personal devices on UT-Austin network. Sure, it technically falls under the very large umbrella of "allowing traffic". No one is disputing that they de-facto have that power. I believe the original question was more along the lines of "how can they reasonably justify doing so without jumping to non-sequeters and bs excuses".
        bena 4y ago
        If you are saying they should have to explain or justify why they block traffic to TikTok's services, you are saying they don't have "the power of say". Because you are saying that power is conditional on you accepting their explanation.
        filoleg 4y ago
        I agree that they have the power of say, and it isn't conditional on me (or anyone else) accepting their explanation. I was just bringing up examples of how I believed those powers should be reasonably used and the kinds of situations they were intended for (in my opinion). And the current situation is not how I believe they should be used, but they technically have the power to do it.
snapcaster 4y ago
Why should you get a say in what applications americans decide to use?
- _-david-_ 4y ago
  The same reason we get a say in anything? We live in a republic and can vote.
- kerpotgh 4y ago
  Because that’s why we still have a society. You can’t put the ability to launch nuclear missiles in a freely distributed app so consider this a less exaggerated version of that restriction.
  - snapcaster 4y ago
    Come on man, can you not make absurd false equivalencies? Do you _really_ believe TikTok is comparable to an app launching NUCLEAR WEAPONS?! get a grip
    - kerpotgh 4y ago
      I don’t see why not? I did point out it’s an exaggerated analogy but a hostile nation having a direct propaganda line of access to a nation’s youth can potentially be used destructively.
supertrope 4y ago
This is pointless theater. The PRC already has the SF-86 forms for everyone with a security clearance, and our medical histories via health insurance hacks, etc
- mikrotikker 4y ago
  That is a very defeatist attitude.
cute_boi 4y ago
Why should you decide which application I can/can't use? I thought people especially right winged people always cry about "freedom"? I don't care about tiktok/facebook etc... but people celebrating on political agenda is kinda distressing to me.
hot_gril 4y ago
I don't want to follow the line of thinking that the US govt should enact similar policies to the CCP.
- type-r 4y ago
  it's not enacting similar policies though. it's taking a reciprocal stance -- don't want to allow our apps? that's fine, but you can't expect we'll allow yours. default to open but restrict if others restrict feels like a very fair policy to me. right now we have open no matter what. this is too permissive.
  - tzs 4y ago
    China allows foreign apps if they obey the same rules on content and reporting and providing government access that Chinese apps must follow. The reciprocal stance by the US would be to allow TikTok but subject it to the same rules Facebook and Twitter and YouTube are subject to.
    - hot_gril 4y ago
      China blocks foreign apps just cause they're foreign and popular, under the guise of whatever law was deliberately designed for this purpose, and now we're doing the similar thing with TikTok.
  - hot_gril 4y ago
    I'm almost ok with this cause of my dislike for China-based companies, esp TikTok, but then I remember how YouTube's been unopposed and twiddling their thumbs for like a decade until they knocked off TikTok. Our economy and world influence grow by building better products, not by trying to limit outside competition to the benefit of a few domestic companies. US govt banning TikTok would be like saying, we have TikTok at home (YT Shorts). It's not just China, btw. EU is extra protectionist too. I don't want to be like them.

CamperBob2 4y ago

Why shouldn't it be up to the user? Who asked the government? This is not how the Internet was supposed to work.

bena 4y ago
Would you rather know if it was up to the government or not know? Because the case with TikTok is that we do not know what the Chinese government is going to do with whatever it collects from the app. Or even if they do. Or anything really. Now, while I think banning TikTok's traffic on the campus network is more of a stunt than anything worthwhile. I do see the argument from banning TikTok and just about any other non-essential app from government issued mobile hardware. That's an area where you'd want to have as little possible surface area exposed as you can.
- tsimionescu 4y ago
  This is about banning access to TikTok for client devices of a campus network. It has nothing to do with banning the TikTok app on government-issued phones.
  - bena 4y ago
    I can imagine that that's the argument they're coming from. So comparing and contrasting the situations isn't out of line.
- ALittleLight 4y ago
  If you don't like TikTok or are concerned about the Chinese government collecting information on you, those are excellent reasons for you not to use TikTok. But what do your preferences have to do with the freedom of other people?
  - bena 4y ago
    But it's also UT-Austin's network. They should have some say in what traffic the allow on it.
    - filoleg 4y ago
      You are explaining why UT-Austin should have the power of say in what traffic they allow on their network, which I agree with they should have. It can be used for many legitimate things, including blocking malicious endpoints associated with DDoS, blocking websites with known malware, stuff that very negatively affects the campus network infra, etc. However, you aren't explaining why UT-Austin should get to decide which apps (that don't affect network operations or campus device security) people can use on their personal devices on UT-Austin network. Sure, it technically falls under the very large umbrella of "allowing traffic". No one is disputing that they de-facto have that power. I believe the original question was more along the lines of "how can they reasonably justify doing so without jumping to non-sequeters and bs excuses".
      - bena 4y ago
        If you are saying they should have to explain or justify why they block traffic to TikTok's services, you are saying they don't have "the power of say". Because you are saying that power is conditional on you accepting their explanation.
        filoleg 4y ago
        I agree that they have the power of say, and it isn't conditional on me (or anyone else) accepting their explanation. I was just bringing up examples of how I believed those powers should be reasonably used and the kinds of situations they were intended for (in my opinion). And the current situation is not how I believe they should be used, but they technically have the power to do it.

snapcaster 4y ago

Why should you get a say in what applications americans decide to use?

_-david-_ 4y ago
The same reason we get a say in anything? We live in a republic and can vote.
kerpotgh 4y ago
Because that’s why we still have a society. You can’t put the ability to launch nuclear missiles in a freely distributed app so consider this a less exaggerated version of that restriction.
- snapcaster 4y ago
  Come on man, can you not make absurd false equivalencies? Do you _really_ believe TikTok is comparable to an app launching NUCLEAR WEAPONS?! get a grip
  - kerpotgh 4y ago
    I don’t see why not? I did point out it’s an exaggerated analogy but a hostile nation having a direct propaganda line of access to a nation’s youth can potentially be used destructively.

supertrope 4y ago

This is pointless theater. The PRC already has the SF-86 forms for everyone with a security clearance, and our medical histories via health insurance hacks, etc

mikrotikker 4y ago
That is a very defeatist attitude.

cute_boi 4y ago

Why should you decide which application I can/can't use? I thought people especially right winged people always cry about "freedom"? I don't care about tiktok/facebook etc... but people celebrating on political agenda is kinda distressing to me.

hot_gril 4y ago

I don't want to follow the line of thinking that the US govt should enact similar policies to the CCP.

type-r 4y ago
it's not enacting similar policies though. it's taking a reciprocal stance -- don't want to allow our apps? that's fine, but you can't expect we'll allow yours. default to open but restrict if others restrict feels like a very fair policy to me. right now we have open no matter what. this is too permissive.
- tzs 4y ago
  China allows foreign apps if they obey the same rules on content and reporting and providing government access that Chinese apps must follow. The reciprocal stance by the US would be to allow TikTok but subject it to the same rules Facebook and Twitter and YouTube are subject to.
  - hot_gril 4y ago
    China blocks foreign apps just cause they're foreign and popular, under the guise of whatever law was deliberately designed for this purpose, and now we're doing the similar thing with TikTok.
- hot_gril 4y ago
  I'm almost ok with this cause of my dislike for China-based companies, esp TikTok, but then I remember how YouTube's been unopposed and twiddling their thumbs for like a decade until they knocked off TikTok. Our economy and world influence grow by building better products, not by trying to limit outside competition to the benefit of a few domestic companies. US govt banning TikTok would be like saying, we have TikTok at home (YT Shorts). It's not just China, btw. EU is extra protectionist too. I don't want to be like them.