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It would be very interesting to see a comparison of the finances and business models of different types of restaurants. Restauranteurs talk about rent and labor

It would be very interesting to see a comparison of the finances and business models of different types of restaurants. Restauranteurs talk about rent and labor as their primary expenses, such that it’s hard to gauge how Noma or similar restaurants were in any way unique in their operating challenges. These “restaurants" seem like they have more in common with performance art or a gallery such that one wonders whether a traditional dinner service, at any price, can ever make business sense.

Mikeb85 4y ago
Noma's financials are public because Denmark requires all companies to make their records public. It's profitable, but paying interns min wage will eat away about half their profit. Paying all their staff a living wage wouldn't be profitable at all. To look at what more sustainable restaurants look like, look at high end French restaurants. Unpaid internships are all but illegal in France (can't last longer than 2 months, can't do duties that paid staff would otherwise do), worker protections are much stronger and as a result you've got higher prices for less courses and far fewer staff per cover.
- poulsbohemian 4y ago
  >To look at what more sustainable restaurants look like, look at high end French restaurants. I guess that's what I don't quite understand about these restaurants - apparently Noma was $500/plate, and still couldn't make it work financially even with free labor. So are these types of restaurants just horribly mismanaged or is there more to the story as to how a $15/sandwich place can stay open for years but $500/plate you go broke?
  - Mikeb85 4y ago
    60 cooks and 30+ waiters serve around 100 guests. That's how. Labour is expensive. A more "normal" but still "fine dining" spot will serve 100 guests with 10 cooks and 10 waiters. And the prices look cheaper but with a la carte offerings often lead to higher check averages especially with wine. Noma has taken it to an extreme because, well, they had an endless supply of free labour. Plus Noma attracts tourists. They spend the minimum. All the high end French joints have regulars (billionaires, politicians, etc...) that'll drop $10k on wine to help the bottom line...

Mikeb85 4y ago

Noma's financials are public because Denmark requires all companies to make their records public. It's profitable, but paying interns min wage will eat away about half their profit. Paying all their staff a living wage wouldn't be profitable at all. To look at what more sustainable restaurants look like, look at high end French restaurants. Unpaid internships are all but illegal in France (can't last longer than 2 months, can't do duties that paid staff would otherwise do), worker protections are much stronger and as a result you've got higher prices for less courses and far fewer staff per cover.

poulsbohemian 4y ago
>To look at what more sustainable restaurants look like, look at high end French restaurants. I guess that's what I don't quite understand about these restaurants - apparently Noma was $500/plate, and still couldn't make it work financially even with free labor. So are these types of restaurants just horribly mismanaged or is there more to the story as to how a $15/sandwich place can stay open for years but $500/plate you go broke?
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  60 cooks and 30+ waiters serve around 100 guests. That's how. Labour is expensive. A more "normal" but still "fine dining" spot will serve 100 guests with 10 cooks and 10 waiters. And the prices look cheaper but with a la carte offerings often lead to higher check averages especially with wine. Noma has taken it to an extreme because, well, they had an endless supply of free labour. Plus Noma attracts tourists. They spend the minimum. All the high end French joints have regulars (billionaires, politicians, etc...) that'll drop $10k on wine to help the bottom line...