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Milton, ex-CEO of Nikola, also technically didn't lie about their truck demo (it was rolled down the hill, and said it was "in motion"). He was found guilty of

Milton, ex-CEO of Nikola, also technically didn't lie about their truck demo (it was rolled down the hill, and said it was "in motion"). He was found guilty of fraud, and will be sentences soon, facing up to 25 years in jail.

jefftk 4y ago
If you read the actual fraud charges [1] it does list the demo video, but along with very clear lies like saying it "fully functions and works" at an unveiling for the Nikola One or "Nikola is producing [hydrogen] well below $4 a kilogram" when the charge says In fact, Nikola has never produced any hydrogen at any price, nor at the time could it have produced hydrogen for below $4 per kilogram. To the contrary, Nikola has never obtained a permit to produce hydrogen or installed the equipment necessary to produce hydrogen. At the time that MILTON was claiming that Nikola was producing hydrogen for less than $4 per kilogram, it was in fact purchasing hydrogen from a supplier for $16 per kilogram. (Something can also be fraud without being a lie.) [1] https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/former-nikola-corporation-ceo-trevor-milton-charged-securities-fraud-scheme https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/former-nikola-corporati...
- FireBeyond 4y ago
  > but along with very clear lies like saying it "fully functions and works" "The driver is only in the seat for legal purposes. The car is driving itself." Not in any way that any other Tesla on the road could drive itself, with HD maps and custom tuned firmware for that route.
  - jefftk 4y ago
    A person seeing it would reasonably conclude that the claim wasn't specific to this exact situation, which makes this misleading, but not technically lying. (I still think it's bad, and am not a Tesla fan)
    - Jensson 4y ago
      It is a lie by omission, some facts are so important to a statement that eliding them is lying. You can't just say that the driver wasn't necessary when he had to intervene in your other tests, it is like saying that the safety net for your line dancer isn't needed even though he would have fallen and died many times over without it. Such lies kills people.
readonthegoapp 4y ago
I didn't watch that trial closely because the fraud seemed so obvious and the company was still a fledgling (?) The Musk / Tesla fraud also seems extremely obvious, but even tho Musk has haters, he's made a bunch more people tons of money, I would expect him to have much better lawyers, etc.

jefftk 4y ago

If you read the actual fraud charges [1] it does list the demo video, but along with very clear lies like saying it "fully functions and works" at an unveiling for the Nikola One or "Nikola is producing [hydrogen] well below $4 a kilogram" when the charge says In fact, Nikola has never produced any hydrogen at any price, nor at the time could it have produced hydrogen for below $4 per kilogram. To the contrary, Nikola has never obtained a permit to produce hydrogen or installed the equipment necessary to produce hydrogen. At the time that MILTON was claiming that Nikola was producing hydrogen for less than $4 per kilogram, it was in fact purchasing hydrogen from a supplier for $16 per kilogram. (Something can also be fraud without being a lie.) [1] https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/former-nikola-corporation-ceo-trevor-milton-charged-securities-fraud-scheme https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/former-nikola-corporati...

FireBeyond 4y ago
> but along with very clear lies like saying it "fully functions and works" "The driver is only in the seat for legal purposes. The car is driving itself." Not in any way that any other Tesla on the road could drive itself, with HD maps and custom tuned firmware for that route.
- jefftk 4y ago
  A person seeing it would reasonably conclude that the claim wasn't specific to this exact situation, which makes this misleading, but not technically lying. (I still think it's bad, and am not a Tesla fan)
  - Jensson 4y ago
    It is a lie by omission, some facts are so important to a statement that eliding them is lying. You can't just say that the driver wasn't necessary when he had to intervene in your other tests, it is like saying that the safety net for your line dancer isn't needed even though he would have fallen and died many times over without it. Such lies kills people.

readonthegoapp 4y ago

I didn't watch that trial closely because the fraud seemed so obvious and the company was still a fledgling (?) The Musk / Tesla fraud also seems extremely obvious, but even tho Musk has haters, he's made a bunch more people tons of money, I would expect him to have much better lawyers, etc.