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I mean, didn't it do exactly that? Just only once?

by wilg 4y ago

acdha 4y ago
The clear implication is that you should buy one because it can do that for you, too. Sales would be far less likely if they showed the clips of it crashing or stalling.
- wilg 4y ago
  There's no reason to apply such an implication. This was a tech demo! No one ever claimed that was something production cars could currently do at the time, nor would that make any sense, as the cars clearly did not do that at the time. An article from the time clearly interprets it as a tech demo: https://electrek.co/2016/10/20/watch-tesla-new-full-self-driving-autopilot-system-at-work/ https://electrek.co/2016/10/20/watch-tesla-new-full-self-dri...
  - acdha 4y ago
    Reading that article, I see lots of things which do not sound like “this worked once on a single known course”. They’re taking orders, talking about unattended cross country trips, and claiming the driver is only there for legal reasons — all of which makes it sound a lot more mature than it is.
    - wilg 4y ago
      Nonetheless, there is no claim that any current product does this, just discussion of potential future features.
      - danaris 4y ago
        That's a pretty big stretch. If someone says, "Buy a Tesla, now with Full Self Driving! Here's a demo!" <insert demo>, then you're going to very reasonably assume that the demo is supposed to be of the current Full Self Driving feature, not of any future feature, and of a typical, if slightly polished-up, usage of that feature. The kind of absurdly nitpicky legalistic weasel-wording you're trying to do wouldn't even fly in most American courts, let alone in the court of public opinion.
        wilg 4y ago
        I don't know what to tell you, man. There was no "current Full Self Driving" feature at the time, in 2016. That option literally had no features until 2019 when some stuff began getting enabled via software update. Edit: Here is the blog post the video was embedded in: https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now-have-full-self-driving-hardware https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now...
  - FireBeyond 4y ago
    > No one ever claimed that was something production cars could currently do at the time "The driver is only in the seat for legal purposes. The car is driving itself." Tesla's website, at the time, and until now.
- yreg 4y ago
  No, it was very clear that it cannot do that for you at that time. The only implication was that it will do it soon, which didn't happen.
  - acdha 4y ago
    "The driver is only in the seat for legal purposes. The car is driving itself." makes it sound like that’s almost ready, as does taking expensive advanced payments on a device which has a relatively short service life. That’s a big up charge for a feature many buyers will never be able use as long as they own their Teslas. Even now, they say “The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat”. Again, that’s fine if you’re showing a tech preview but when you start taking preorders on consumable product you really should be very clear that what people get for all of that money is nowhere near the demo.
    - yreg 4y ago
      Almost ready or not, it doesn't make it sound like the product can do it right now if you purchase it. Whether it's FSD, Cyberpunk or a Kickstarter campaign, preorders should cary the same expectations — if what you are buying doesn't exist yet, the seller cannot possibly guarantee they will be able to make what they 'promised'.
      - acdha 4y ago
        I would definitely support some rules like that for pre-orders: once you start accepting money you have to be very up-front about the state of the product and test results. If that’s too much, do conventional R&D and tell people they can buy it when it’s ready.
        yreg 4y ago
        Agreed. It could be also regulated the way e.g. investment ads are, so you always have to explain that this is not a finished product and that it may be different on release or in fact never be finished. I won't defend Tesla here, but I think e.g. the gaming world is often unfair to game studios and game developers when a game is launched and is different from what was presented on some conference before. Scope changes, priorities change, playtesting changes the original plans, resources are limited. It's normal. When the end product is different it doesn't mean the developers lied when they originally presented it. imho.

I mean, didn't it do exactly that? Just only once?

by wilg 4y ago

I mean, didn't it do exactly that? Just only once?

The clear implication is that you should buy one because it can do that for you, too. Sales would be far less likely if they showed the clips of it crashing or stalling.

wilg 4y ago
There's no reason to apply such an implication. This was a tech demo! No one ever claimed that was something production cars could currently do at the time, nor would that make any sense, as the cars clearly did not do that at the time. An article from the time clearly interprets it as a tech demo: https://electrek.co/2016/10/20/watch-tesla-new-full-self-driving-autopilot-system-at-work/ https://electrek.co/2016/10/20/watch-tesla-new-full-self-dri...
- acdha 4y ago
  Reading that article, I see lots of things which do not sound like “this worked once on a single known course”. They’re taking orders, talking about unattended cross country trips, and claiming the driver is only there for legal reasons — all of which makes it sound a lot more mature than it is.
  - wilg 4y ago
    Nonetheless, there is no claim that any current product does this, just discussion of potential future features.
    - danaris 4y ago
      That's a pretty big stretch. If someone says, "Buy a Tesla, now with Full Self Driving! Here's a demo!" <insert demo>, then you're going to very reasonably assume that the demo is supposed to be of the current Full Self Driving feature, not of any future feature, and of a typical, if slightly polished-up, usage of that feature. The kind of absurdly nitpicky legalistic weasel-wording you're trying to do wouldn't even fly in most American courts, let alone in the court of public opinion.
      - wilg 4y ago
        I don't know what to tell you, man. There was no "current Full Self Driving" feature at the time, in 2016. That option literally had no features until 2019 when some stuff began getting enabled via software update. Edit: Here is the blog post the video was embedded in: https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now-have-full-self-driving-hardware https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now...
- FireBeyond 4y ago
  > No one ever claimed that was something production cars could currently do at the time "The driver is only in the seat for legal purposes. The car is driving itself." Tesla's website, at the time, and until now.
yreg 4y ago
No, it was very clear that it cannot do that for you at that time. The only implication was that it will do it soon, which didn't happen.
- acdha 4y ago
  "The driver is only in the seat for legal purposes. The car is driving itself." makes it sound like that’s almost ready, as does taking expensive advanced payments on a device which has a relatively short service life. That’s a big up charge for a feature many buyers will never be able use as long as they own their Teslas. Even now, they say “The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat”. Again, that’s fine if you’re showing a tech preview but when you start taking preorders on consumable product you really should be very clear that what people get for all of that money is nowhere near the demo.
  - yreg 4y ago
    Almost ready or not, it doesn't make it sound like the product can do it right now if you purchase it. Whether it's FSD, Cyberpunk or a Kickstarter campaign, preorders should cary the same expectations — if what you are buying doesn't exist yet, the seller cannot possibly guarantee they will be able to make what they 'promised'.
    - acdha 4y ago
      I would definitely support some rules like that for pre-orders: once you start accepting money you have to be very up-front about the state of the product and test results. If that’s too much, do conventional R&D and tell people they can buy it when it’s ready.
      - yreg 4y ago
        Agreed. It could be also regulated the way e.g. investment ads are, so you always have to explain that this is not a finished product and that it may be different on release or in fact never be finished. I won't defend Tesla here, but I think e.g. the gaming world is often unfair to game studios and game developers when a game is launched and is different from what was presented on some conference before. Scope changes, priorities change, playtesting changes the original plans, resources are limited. It's normal. When the end product is different it doesn't mean the developers lied when they originally presented it. imho.