5 ms·

you could make the argument that late-stage capitalism and the emergence of neufeudalism has reduced the state from an arbiter and partner in creating a thrivin

you could make the argument that late-stage capitalism and the emergence of neufeudalism has reduced the state from an arbiter and partner in creating a thriving and successful society for its people, to a paul blart mall cop. well thought legislature is the purvey of the private sector, as is trade law and most of the sovereignty of the internet. but realistically Boris Johnson himself was notorious for using dead-cat legislature to draw attention away from serious problems in his own government and serious issues the nation faces. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_strategy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_strategy chances are great we're seeing this bit of legislation to help people lose focus on the slow-rolling dumpster fire of brexit.

astrange 4y ago
> you could make the argument that late-stage capitalism and the emergence of neufeudalism Just because someone made up some words doesn't mean you have to use them. There's nothing late about the capitalism (it's not going anywhere) nor neo about the feudalism (the UK's terrible land use policies are AFAIK all historical). Although the opposition have now just announced they're going to make everyone poorer, which would be a weird policy and I suppose anti-capitalist, except it's already been happening since 2005-ish. https://twitter.com/josiahmortimer/status/1615364763197837312 https://twitter.com/josiahmortimer/status/161536476319783731...
- n4r9 4y ago
  This comment prompted me to actually look up "late stage capitalism". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism > In modern usage, late capitalism often refers to a new mix of high-tech advances, the concentration of (speculative) financial capital, post-Fordism, and a growing income inequality. I think that definition is at least meaningful, and seems to align with how I've heard people use the phrase.
  - astrange 4y ago
    The term was invented in 1902 and "late-stage" is meant to imply it's going to die of old age very soon. I'm sure it will, any day now. Also, income inequality is not growing. Instead real income is falling for everyone, which is worse!
    - ninjanomnom 4y ago
      Late stage to me indicates that some sort of optimal state has been reached, not that the thing will be gone soon. Late stage construction is a nearly complete building for instance. Late stage capitalism is certainly used in this manner as it's meant to refer to the end result of poor incentives being applied over a long period of time.
    - n4r9 4y ago
      The meanings of words change over time. > Roberts said that the term’s current usage departs somewhat from its original meaning. “It’s not this sense that things are getting so bad that the revolution is going to come,” he told me, “but rather that we see the ligaments of the international system that socialists will be able to seize and use.” https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/05/late-capitalism/524943/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/05/late-ca... > income inequality is not growing Global within-country income inequality rose steeply between 1980 and 2020. See p.57 of https://wir2022.wid.world/www-site/uploads/2021/12/WorldInequalityReport2022_Full_Report.pdf https://wir2022.wid.world/www-site/uploads/2021/12/WorldIneq... The growth of income inequality in the US over that same period is really stark: https://www.vox.com/2018/7/29/17627134/income-inequality-chart https://www.vox.com/2018/7/29/17627134/income-inequality-cha...
- cycomanic 4y ago
  ?? What about not using GDP as a primary indicator of economic/social health is making everyone poorer. GDP as a measure was invented as a wartime metric, at the time it made sense. However later even it's "inventor" Kuznets warned about it's use as primary metric. Let's not even get into the complexity of calculating it (the UN instructions come to >700 pages).
  - astrange 4y ago
    GDP already isn't used as the only indicator of economic health (don't know about "primary"). But some British people invented a philosophy called degrowth as a way of explaining how their country's falling real incomes are good actually, and calling for it to be the official policy is pretty worrying. This is different from America, where people briefly got into degrowth after reading The Population Bomb, but mostly got it out of their system after noticing none of it actually came true. (Economic growth does not actually use more resources like the idea implies. That's not efficient since you have to pay for the resources. It uses the same ones more productively.)
    - eecc 4y ago
      Doesn’t efficiency imply commoditization and therefore economic stagnation or even contraction?
      - astrange 4y ago
        No, productivity is good. For an example of the reverse, as the UK's economy has been shrinking in recent years, carwashes have been de-automating and replacing machines with handwashing. Luckily, humans are never satisfied and continue demanding new things, so making things cheaper doesn't reduce the total market. But also, those new things can be services or digital goods or 100% recycled, which is why the US uses less water per year and emits less CO2 per year in 2023 than it did in the 60s. (No, that's not because we outsourced it to China.)
- pjc50 4y ago
  > just announced they're going to make everyone poorer As opposed to Liz Truss who did it without an announcemnt?
  - astrange 4y ago
    She had time to do something?
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  > someone made up some words neufeudalism is just a natural evolution of neoliberalism. It's where your become a modern equivalent of medieval serf, your bionic eyes become obsolete and unsupported [1], all contracts between you and corporations are extremely one-sided, you own no property and no land. You may think you own your TV and your car. But fixing 'your' car without paying the Lord is a crime - because of IP law and DMCA. Actually someone at Samsung wakes up one day and decides that your TV, car, or front door should stop working today. Your have no right and no recourse. Or you have theoretical rights that can only enforced with a 10-year long court battle costing millions of dollars. However any offense against the lord, er, I mean, corporation, is prosecuted by the king, I mean state, for free. The lord to collects the 30% Apple tax. The Lord himself does not pay any tax. The lord pledges loyalty to the king, and provides the king with access to it's territory and resources - the king may access information held by any serf on OneDrive, ICloud, Buttcloud, etc. the Kings must compete with one another to woo the Lord to their. The Kings of China and US constantly battle for territorial access to different lords. Recently some plebs petitioned Lord Elon to remove filthy Russian peasants from his kingdom by disabling all Teslas in Russia. [3] 1 - https://spectrum.ieee.org/bionic-eye-obsolete https://spectrum.ieee.org/bionic-eye-obsolete 2 - https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/samsung-can-remotely-brick-your-smart-television-4160027 https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/samsung-can-remotely-bri... 3 - https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-twitter-users-request-deactivate-tesla-russia-2022-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-twitter-users-requ...
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
And government machinery is decrepit. Governments of yesterday had the brains to plan and implement major projects - interstate highway system, moon landings, etc. todays governments can't find their way out of a paper bag. Their only capability is to hand out money to a neofeudal lord and hope for results.
- eecc 4y ago
  Isn’t that peak “liberal libertarian”? The government staying out of the “market” to avoid any distortion, it’s only legitimate move to be staying out of the ways as much as possible, occasionally cleaning up the mess with generous subsidies and debt fueled capital injections?
alphanullmeric 4y ago
Government regulations are capitalism and other funny stories you can tell yourself
gsatic 4y ago
In Techno feudalism govt doesnt exist. Its just the techlord buffoon class and the serfs (ie people enslaved by their phones). The govt will keep giving Mario Savio speeches and they will end up just like Mario.

astrange 4y ago

> you could make the argument that late-stage capitalism and the emergence of neufeudalism Just because someone made up some words doesn't mean you have to use them. There's nothing late about the capitalism (it's not going anywhere) nor neo about the feudalism (the UK's terrible land use policies are AFAIK all historical). Although the opposition have now just announced they're going to make everyone poorer, which would be a weird policy and I suppose anti-capitalist, except it's already been happening since 2005-ish. https://twitter.com/josiahmortimer/status/1615364763197837312 https://twitter.com/josiahmortimer/status/161536476319783731...

n4r9 4y ago
This comment prompted me to actually look up "late stage capitalism". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism > In modern usage, late capitalism often refers to a new mix of high-tech advances, the concentration of (speculative) financial capital, post-Fordism, and a growing income inequality. I think that definition is at least meaningful, and seems to align with how I've heard people use the phrase.
- astrange 4y ago
  The term was invented in 1902 and "late-stage" is meant to imply it's going to die of old age very soon. I'm sure it will, any day now. Also, income inequality is not growing. Instead real income is falling for everyone, which is worse!
  - ninjanomnom 4y ago
    Late stage to me indicates that some sort of optimal state has been reached, not that the thing will be gone soon. Late stage construction is a nearly complete building for instance. Late stage capitalism is certainly used in this manner as it's meant to refer to the end result of poor incentives being applied over a long period of time.
  - n4r9 4y ago
    The meanings of words change over time. > Roberts said that the term’s current usage departs somewhat from its original meaning. “It’s not this sense that things are getting so bad that the revolution is going to come,” he told me, “but rather that we see the ligaments of the international system that socialists will be able to seize and use.” https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/05/late-capitalism/524943/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/05/late-ca... > income inequality is not growing Global within-country income inequality rose steeply between 1980 and 2020. See p.57 of https://wir2022.wid.world/www-site/uploads/2021/12/WorldInequalityReport2022_Full_Report.pdf https://wir2022.wid.world/www-site/uploads/2021/12/WorldIneq... The growth of income inequality in the US over that same period is really stark: https://www.vox.com/2018/7/29/17627134/income-inequality-chart https://www.vox.com/2018/7/29/17627134/income-inequality-cha...
cycomanic 4y ago
?? What about not using GDP as a primary indicator of economic/social health is making everyone poorer. GDP as a measure was invented as a wartime metric, at the time it made sense. However later even it's "inventor" Kuznets warned about it's use as primary metric. Let's not even get into the complexity of calculating it (the UN instructions come to >700 pages).
- astrange 4y ago
  GDP already isn't used as the only indicator of economic health (don't know about "primary"). But some British people invented a philosophy called degrowth as a way of explaining how their country's falling real incomes are good actually, and calling for it to be the official policy is pretty worrying. This is different from America, where people briefly got into degrowth after reading The Population Bomb, but mostly got it out of their system after noticing none of it actually came true. (Economic growth does not actually use more resources like the idea implies. That's not efficient since you have to pay for the resources. It uses the same ones more productively.)
  - eecc 4y ago
    Doesn’t efficiency imply commoditization and therefore economic stagnation or even contraction?
    - astrange 4y ago
      No, productivity is good. For an example of the reverse, as the UK's economy has been shrinking in recent years, carwashes have been de-automating and replacing machines with handwashing. Luckily, humans are never satisfied and continue demanding new things, so making things cheaper doesn't reduce the total market. But also, those new things can be services or digital goods or 100% recycled, which is why the US uses less water per year and emits less CO2 per year in 2023 than it did in the 60s. (No, that's not because we outsourced it to China.)
pjc50 4y ago
> just announced they're going to make everyone poorer As opposed to Liz Truss who did it without an announcemnt?
- astrange 4y ago
  She had time to do something?
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> someone made up some words neufeudalism is just a natural evolution of neoliberalism. It's where your become a modern equivalent of medieval serf, your bionic eyes become obsolete and unsupported [1], all contracts between you and corporations are extremely one-sided, you own no property and no land. You may think you own your TV and your car. But fixing 'your' car without paying the Lord is a crime - because of IP law and DMCA. Actually someone at Samsung wakes up one day and decides that your TV, car, or front door should stop working today. Your have no right and no recourse. Or you have theoretical rights that can only enforced with a 10-year long court battle costing millions of dollars. However any offense against the lord, er, I mean, corporation, is prosecuted by the king, I mean state, for free. The lord to collects the 30% Apple tax. The Lord himself does not pay any tax. The lord pledges loyalty to the king, and provides the king with access to it's territory and resources - the king may access information held by any serf on OneDrive, ICloud, Buttcloud, etc. the Kings must compete with one another to woo the Lord to their. The Kings of China and US constantly battle for territorial access to different lords. Recently some plebs petitioned Lord Elon to remove filthy Russian peasants from his kingdom by disabling all Teslas in Russia. [3] 1 - https://spectrum.ieee.org/bionic-eye-obsolete https://spectrum.ieee.org/bionic-eye-obsolete 2 - https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/samsung-can-remotely-brick-your-smart-television-4160027 https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/samsung-can-remotely-bri... 3 - https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-twitter-users-request-deactivate-tesla-russia-2022-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-twitter-users-requ...

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

And government machinery is decrepit. Governments of yesterday had the brains to plan and implement major projects - interstate highway system, moon landings, etc. todays governments can't find their way out of a paper bag. Their only capability is to hand out money to a neofeudal lord and hope for results.

eecc 4y ago
Isn’t that peak “liberal libertarian”? The government staying out of the “market” to avoid any distortion, it’s only legitimate move to be staying out of the ways as much as possible, occasionally cleaning up the mess with generous subsidies and debt fueled capital injections?

alphanullmeric 4y ago

Government regulations are capitalism and other funny stories you can tell yourself

gsatic 4y ago

In Techno feudalism govt doesnt exist. Its just the techlord buffoon class and the serfs (ie people enslaved by their phones). The govt will keep giving Mario Savio speeches and they will end up just like Mario.