4 ms·

The UK as a whole leans fairly authoritarian and has had successive paternalistic governments for probably as long as anyone alive can remember (some people wil

by ljm 4y ago

The UK as a whole leans fairly authoritarian and has had successive paternalistic governments for probably as long as anyone alive can remember (some people will call this the 'nanny state'). These fanciful proposals are created and supported by both Conservative (right, centre right) and Labour (left, centre left) parties alike. As cynical as it sounds, this kind of legislation is rolled out practically every year and you could probably set your watch by it. Sometimes the law is implemented, quite often it's put on the backburner and resurrected the next year when there needs to be a distraction from something else. You can ask, "how will this work in practice?" and few people will be able to claim they've actually thought as far as that.

nimbius 4y ago
you could make the argument that late-stage capitalism and the emergence of neufeudalism has reduced the state from an arbiter and partner in creating a thriving and successful society for its people, to a paul blart mall cop. well thought legislature is the purvey of the private sector, as is trade law and most of the sovereignty of the internet. but realistically Boris Johnson himself was notorious for using dead-cat legislature to draw attention away from serious problems in his own government and serious issues the nation faces. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_strategy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_strategy chances are great we're seeing this bit of legislation to help people lose focus on the slow-rolling dumpster fire of brexit.
- astrange 4y ago
  > you could make the argument that late-stage capitalism and the emergence of neufeudalism Just because someone made up some words doesn't mean you have to use them. There's nothing late about the capitalism (it's not going anywhere) nor neo about the feudalism (the UK's terrible land use policies are AFAIK all historical). Although the opposition have now just announced they're going to make everyone poorer, which would be a weird policy and I suppose anti-capitalist, except it's already been happening since 2005-ish. https://twitter.com/josiahmortimer/status/1615364763197837312 https://twitter.com/josiahmortimer/status/161536476319783731...
  - n4r9 4y ago
    This comment prompted me to actually look up "late stage capitalism". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism > In modern usage, late capitalism often refers to a new mix of high-tech advances, the concentration of (speculative) financial capital, post-Fordism, and a growing income inequality. I think that definition is at least meaningful, and seems to align with how I've heard people use the phrase.
    - astrange 4y ago
      The term was invented in 1902 and "late-stage" is meant to imply it's going to die of old age very soon. I'm sure it will, any day now. Also, income inequality is not growing. Instead real income is falling for everyone, which is worse!
      - ninjanomnom 4y ago
        Late stage to me indicates that some sort of optimal state has been reached, not that the thing will be gone soon. Late stage construction is a nearly complete building for instance. Late stage capitalism is certainly used in this manner as it's meant to refer to the end result of poor incentives being applied over a long period of time.
      - n4r9 4y ago
        The meanings of words change over time. > Roberts said that the term’s current usage departs somewhat from its original meaning. “It’s not this sense that things are getting so bad that the revolution is going to come,” he told me, “but rather that we see the ligaments of the international system that socialists will be able to seize and use.” https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/05/late-capitalism/524943/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/05/late-ca... > income inequality is not growing Global within-country income inequality rose steeply between 1980 and 2020. See p.57 of https://wir2022.wid.world/www-site/uploads/2021/12/WorldInequalityReport2022_Full_Report.pdf https://wir2022.wid.world/www-site/uploads/2021/12/WorldIneq... The growth of income inequality in the US over that same period is really stark: https://www.vox.com/2018/7/29/17627134/income-inequality-chart https://www.vox.com/2018/7/29/17627134/income-inequality-cha...
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  And government machinery is decrepit. Governments of yesterday had the brains to plan and implement major projects - interstate highway system, moon landings, etc. todays governments can't find their way out of a paper bag. Their only capability is to hand out money to a neofeudal lord and hope for results.
  - eecc 4y ago
    Isn’t that peak “liberal libertarian”? The government staying out of the “market” to avoid any distortion, it’s only legitimate move to be staying out of the ways as much as possible, occasionally cleaning up the mess with generous subsidies and debt fueled capital injections?
- alphanullmeric 4y ago
  Government regulations are capitalism and other funny stories you can tell yourself
- gsatic 4y ago
  In Techno feudalism govt doesnt exist. Its just the techlord buffoon class and the serfs (ie people enslaved by their phones). The govt will keep giving Mario Savio speeches and they will end up just like Mario.
bsder 4y ago
> You can ask, "how will this work in practice?" and few people will be able to claim they've actually thought as far as that. This seemed to be the central problem of Brexit as well ...
- tim333 4y ago
  There were many people who thought about that with Brexit but sadly the vote went the way it did. I remember Boris and Gove looking rather horrified when they found they had won.

by ljm 4y ago

nimbius 4y ago

you could make the argument that late-stage capitalism and the emergence of neufeudalism has reduced the state from an arbiter and partner in creating a thriving and successful society for its people, to a paul blart mall cop. well thought legislature is the purvey of the private sector, as is trade law and most of the sovereignty of the internet. but realistically Boris Johnson himself was notorious for using dead-cat legislature to draw attention away from serious problems in his own government and serious issues the nation faces. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_strategy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_strategy chances are great we're seeing this bit of legislation to help people lose focus on the slow-rolling dumpster fire of brexit.

astrange 4y ago
> you could make the argument that late-stage capitalism and the emergence of neufeudalism Just because someone made up some words doesn't mean you have to use them. There's nothing late about the capitalism (it's not going anywhere) nor neo about the feudalism (the UK's terrible land use policies are AFAIK all historical). Although the opposition have now just announced they're going to make everyone poorer, which would be a weird policy and I suppose anti-capitalist, except it's already been happening since 2005-ish. https://twitter.com/josiahmortimer/status/1615364763197837312 https://twitter.com/josiahmortimer/status/161536476319783731...
- n4r9 4y ago
  This comment prompted me to actually look up "late stage capitalism". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism > In modern usage, late capitalism often refers to a new mix of high-tech advances, the concentration of (speculative) financial capital, post-Fordism, and a growing income inequality. I think that definition is at least meaningful, and seems to align with how I've heard people use the phrase.
  - astrange 4y ago
    The term was invented in 1902 and "late-stage" is meant to imply it's going to die of old age very soon. I'm sure it will, any day now. Also, income inequality is not growing. Instead real income is falling for everyone, which is worse!
    - ninjanomnom 4y ago
      Late stage to me indicates that some sort of optimal state has been reached, not that the thing will be gone soon. Late stage construction is a nearly complete building for instance. Late stage capitalism is certainly used in this manner as it's meant to refer to the end result of poor incentives being applied over a long period of time.
    - n4r9 4y ago
      The meanings of words change over time. > Roberts said that the term’s current usage departs somewhat from its original meaning. “It’s not this sense that things are getting so bad that the revolution is going to come,” he told me, “but rather that we see the ligaments of the international system that socialists will be able to seize and use.” https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/05/late-capitalism/524943/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/05/late-ca... > income inequality is not growing Global within-country income inequality rose steeply between 1980 and 2020. See p.57 of https://wir2022.wid.world/www-site/uploads/2021/12/WorldInequalityReport2022_Full_Report.pdf https://wir2022.wid.world/www-site/uploads/2021/12/WorldIneq... The growth of income inequality in the US over that same period is really stark: https://www.vox.com/2018/7/29/17627134/income-inequality-chart https://www.vox.com/2018/7/29/17627134/income-inequality-cha...
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
And government machinery is decrepit. Governments of yesterday had the brains to plan and implement major projects - interstate highway system, moon landings, etc. todays governments can't find their way out of a paper bag. Their only capability is to hand out money to a neofeudal lord and hope for results.
- eecc 4y ago
  Isn’t that peak “liberal libertarian”? The government staying out of the “market” to avoid any distortion, it’s only legitimate move to be staying out of the ways as much as possible, occasionally cleaning up the mess with generous subsidies and debt fueled capital injections?
alphanullmeric 4y ago
Government regulations are capitalism and other funny stories you can tell yourself
gsatic 4y ago
In Techno feudalism govt doesnt exist. Its just the techlord buffoon class and the serfs (ie people enslaved by their phones). The govt will keep giving Mario Savio speeches and they will end up just like Mario.

bsder 4y ago

> You can ask, "how will this work in practice?" and few people will be able to claim they've actually thought as far as that. This seemed to be the central problem of Brexit as well ...

tim333 4y ago
There were many people who thought about that with Brexit but sadly the vote went the way it did. I remember Boris and Gove looking rather horrified when they found they had won.