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Say what you want about Tesla as an enterprise -- they delivered actual cars and fraud, if any actually happened, is far below the Theranos level.

NicoJuicy 4y ago
Not in market value...
nkozyra 4y ago
"Less fraud than Theranos" probably isn't the accolade you hang on the mantle.
mrbombastic 4y ago
Lol is this how low our standards have sunk?
sho_hn 4y ago
"Well, it's less bad than Theranos" --Tesla in Review, 2023
WaxProlix 4y ago
> below the Theranos level Isn't that just like, an insanely high bar of fraud to meet? How many things in recent memory rise to the level of fraud that Theranos represents? "Not the most fraudulent fraudsters" just comes across as a damningly weak defense (imo).
- sidewndr46 4y ago
  The only unique thing about the Theranos fraud is it seem Holmes didn't make an overt moves to profit off the inflated valuation of the company.
  - spoiler 4y ago
    I think she genuinely believed in the technology, and thought they just needed more time. Like, she kept pressuring people to work on it, and there were some small advancements in the tech, just not good enough. I think the worst thing they did was giving those device out to healthcare institutions, when they knew it was inaccurate. I'm not defending her, she was clearly dangerously delusional, but I think it explains why she didn't behave like a classical con artist/scammer
- ronsor 4y ago
  > How many things in recent memory rise to the level of fraud that Theranos represents? Mr. SBF from FTX would like to have a word with you.
  - WaxProlix 4y ago
    True, crypto sort of lives in its own world of perpetual ongoing fraud/grift, eh?
  - NicoJuicy 4y ago
    FTX was crypto. If you're suprised by fraud there, you haven't been paying attention the last years.
beebmam 4y ago
> Say what you want about Tesla as an enterprise -- they delivered actual cars and fraud, if any actually happened, is far below the Theranos level. The missing comma before "and fraud" is doing a lot of work in this sentence.
rapsey 4y ago
How many people did Theranos kill compared to Tesla self driving?
- ggreer 4y ago
  Theranos’s faulty blood tests were used by a couple major insurance companies and at least one state-run medical provider. Over 1.5 million tests were run. I’m sure quite a few people died because they weren’t correctly diagnosed in time for treatment.
- mensetmanusman 4y ago
  Better comparison would be to VW ~ 1200 premature deaths https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1109238_vw-diesel-cheating-produced-1200-premature-deaths-mit-study https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1109238_vw-diesel-cheat...
dqpb 4y ago
> they delivered actual cars and fraud, I think your punctuation is doing you a disservice.
- chihuahua 4y ago
  They're giving you cars, they're giving you fraud, they're giving you cars with some fraud, what more do you want? You people are so hard to please. /s
SilverBirch 4y ago
I absolutely agree with you, so we have an upper bound, Elon Musk is facing far less than 12 years in prison. Doesn't anyone want to help us out with a lower bound?
- unregistereddev 4y ago
  This is interesting context. I'd say a fine of $125,000 - because that is the lowest fine I can find in a brief DDG search of fines levied for materially misleading investors.
leaf8937 4y ago
say whatever you want about Theranos, but Hitler killed millions. Say whatever you want about Hitler but Genghis...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
kube-system 4y ago
Theranos delivered blood test results. Tesla delivered cars. The problem is that neither delivered those things to the particular qualities promised.
Nullabillity 4y ago
Didn't Theranos deliver actual results, just using the Siemens machines instead of their own?

NicoJuicy 4y ago

Not in market value...

nkozyra 4y ago

"Less fraud than Theranos" probably isn't the accolade you hang on the mantle.

mrbombastic 4y ago

Lol is this how low our standards have sunk?

sho_hn 4y ago

"Well, it's less bad than Theranos" --Tesla in Review, 2023

WaxProlix 4y ago

> below the Theranos level Isn't that just like, an insanely high bar of fraud to meet? How many things in recent memory rise to the level of fraud that Theranos represents? "Not the most fraudulent fraudsters" just comes across as a damningly weak defense (imo).

sidewndr46 4y ago
The only unique thing about the Theranos fraud is it seem Holmes didn't make an overt moves to profit off the inflated valuation of the company.
- spoiler 4y ago
  I think she genuinely believed in the technology, and thought they just needed more time. Like, she kept pressuring people to work on it, and there were some small advancements in the tech, just not good enough. I think the worst thing they did was giving those device out to healthcare institutions, when they knew it was inaccurate. I'm not defending her, she was clearly dangerously delusional, but I think it explains why she didn't behave like a classical con artist/scammer
ronsor 4y ago
> How many things in recent memory rise to the level of fraud that Theranos represents? Mr. SBF from FTX would like to have a word with you.
- WaxProlix 4y ago
  True, crypto sort of lives in its own world of perpetual ongoing fraud/grift, eh?
- NicoJuicy 4y ago
  FTX was crypto. If you're suprised by fraud there, you haven't been paying attention the last years.

beebmam 4y ago

> Say what you want about Tesla as an enterprise -- they delivered actual cars and fraud, if any actually happened, is far below the Theranos level. The missing comma before "and fraud" is doing a lot of work in this sentence.

rapsey 4y ago

How many people did Theranos kill compared to Tesla self driving?

ggreer 4y ago
Theranos’s faulty blood tests were used by a couple major insurance companies and at least one state-run medical provider. Over 1.5 million tests were run. I’m sure quite a few people died because they weren’t correctly diagnosed in time for treatment.
mensetmanusman 4y ago
Better comparison would be to VW ~ 1200 premature deaths https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1109238_vw-diesel-cheating-produced-1200-premature-deaths-mit-study https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1109238_vw-diesel-cheat...

dqpb 4y ago

> they delivered actual cars and fraud, I think your punctuation is doing you a disservice.

chihuahua 4y ago
They're giving you cars, they're giving you fraud, they're giving you cars with some fraud, what more do you want? You people are so hard to please. /s

SilverBirch 4y ago

I absolutely agree with you, so we have an upper bound, Elon Musk is facing far less than 12 years in prison. Doesn't anyone want to help us out with a lower bound?

unregistereddev 4y ago
This is interesting context. I'd say a fine of $125,000 - because that is the lowest fine I can find in a brief DDG search of fines levied for materially misleading investors.

leaf8937 4y ago

say whatever you want about Theranos, but Hitler killed millions. Say whatever you want about Hitler but Genghis...

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

kube-system 4y ago

Theranos delivered blood test results. Tesla delivered cars. The problem is that neither delivered those things to the particular qualities promised.

Nullabillity 4y ago

Didn't Theranos deliver actual results, just using the Siemens machines instead of their own?