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In the beginning I thought the “performance per watt” thing was just folks who want Apple to be better clinging to a stat that made it look like that was the ca

In the beginning I thought the “performance per watt” thing was just folks who want Apple to be better clinging to a stat that made it look like that was the case. But in late 2021 I was long overdue for an upgrade, so I got an M1 Max MacBook Pro and holy hell, now I get it. The battery lasts stupid long. Like, the fact that I can bring this thing on a plane or train without worrying if they’ll have working electric sockets is huge. The fact I can stash this thing under a desk with no power available and have it run graphics-intensive projections for a 3-hour theatre show is huge. The fact that I can achieve all that with zero throttling (I turned on High Energy use and never turned it off) is huge. The fact that I can achieve all of that with basically no fan noise is nonsensical. Like, compared to the 2020 Razer Blade (RTX 2070 Max-Q) I use for work, it’s like a completely different class of device. My Razer Blade spins up like a jet engine under load, requires a cable if I’m going to do anything intense for an hour, underclocks from ~4.4GHz to ~1.5-2.5GHz when on battery (seemingly no way to disable this), and really only beats my MacBook for tasks that specifically require an Nvidia GPU.

mdasen 4y ago
Yea, I upgraded to an M1 Pro and it's truly amazing. I used to always look at benchmarks and always want to upgrade to the newest thing that was coming out. Now I have a laptop that feels like it just works. It doesn't get hot, I've never heard the fan, and just so many of the typical worries/concerns just aren't there for me anymore. Yesterday, there was an article about Intel showing off a "35 watt" chip that was benchmarking better than last year's 125 watt chip. Except, you go into the comments and people note that it'll draw 107 watts for short periods of time - probably just long enough to get good benchmark scores. The magic of the M-series processors is that they have really great sustainable performance and without needing to draw power and create heat like Intel's. The Razor Blade machines are amazing in how they deal with the amount of heat generated with their liquid cooling and everything (it's quite a design), but as you note it's still a jet-engine sounding machine that requires being tethered to power. One of the big things that Apple showed off when introducing the M1 Pro/Max was the idea that you could be a creator doing your job and no longer feel like you were tied to a power outlet. Photoshop from a park or edit video wherever you are: you really don't need more power than you'll always have with you. As I said, I bought the M1 Pro and specifically upgraded to the 8 performance core version of it. I'd always bought the high-watt Intel processors for my MacBook, not the paltry 15W Intel parts. I had a 2020 MacBook Pro with 2.3GHz Core i7 (28W, 10nm) and I'd regularly have it get really hot, the fan often wasn't too loud but it was always a constant drone, and things felt slow. My next machine is going to be a MacBook Air. I feel like I'm using nothing on this machine. I have 8 performance cores and 2 efficiency cores, but it just feels like there's no point to having that much CPU. It's a really crazy feeling for me. Yes, more performance will be useful for some people, especially people who do video editing, graphics, etc. But damn does all my work never even come close to stressing this thing - something I'd regularly have a problem with on Intel's greatest drawing a lot more power and making a lot more heat just a year before. Intel has made some strides since then and I'm happy that their newer processors are doing well, but for the first time in my life it just feels like I don't care. I might grab a 3nm laptop from Apple when those come out, but I'm not anxiously awaiting them. I might just wait for whatever comes after TSMC's 3nm process. I am kinda excited that I can go to a MacBook Air.
- ako 4y ago
  Stories like yours made me upgrade my home computer to an iPad Air 2022. It’s basically an M1 laptop with a touch screen, and when you pair it with a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse, and attach it to an external display, it feels like a full pc.
  - nicoburns 4y ago
    > it feels like a full pc The hardware is basically equivalent, but unfortunately that's far from the case with the software. It's definitely useable as a home computer if you mainly browse the web or use office apps. But there's a lot of software that just isn't supported on the ipad. It would be pretty useless for me as a software developer.
    - ako 4y ago
      Correct, it’s not a good tool for programmers, but many other jobs it’s a great tool: photo organization and editing, video editing, note taking, learning and playing music (connected to a guitar), writing and dictating texts (Dropbox paper), creating texts and presentations (ms office or pages/keynote), reading news (browser, Flipboard, get pocket), watching videos/Netflix/prime, controlling music on the HomePod mini, banking, home control (control thermostat). The only reason I still have a laptop is software development.
johnwalkr 4y ago
I use the slightly older 14” macbook at work and since I’m always in different meeting rooms, and only at my desk for half the day I charge it like I charge my phone. If I notice it’s low, I charge it when I go for lunch or whatever.
cbsmith 4y ago
I'm not sure I'd attribute that much to the CPU design though. On a typical laptop, CPU power consumption is <20% of the picture.
- Uehreka 4y ago
  Well in that case: whether it’s the CPU, or the way CPU/GPU/RAM are tightly coupled on the SoC, or the 4Kish MiniLED screen (which never seems to be dim), or some sort magic glue between the battery cells… Apple is doing something spectacular, and other manufacturers need to figure out how to do it too.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Most signs point to it being hardware-related. Without any Mac-specific optimization, the Asahi folks got fairly long runtimes out of the CPU (which makes sense, ARM has low idle draws). Frankly though, I don't want most manufacturers to make ARM machines. While Apple is allowed to monopolize the latest TSMC silicon, it's completely pointless trying to compete with them. May as well focus on delivering a great x86 experience with AMD and switching to something more open like RISC-V when the time comes.
    - tcmart14 4y ago
      I agree with your sentiment for the most part. I would love to see someone take RISC-V or Power seriously to compete in the consumer space with an ISA. However, I don't think Power is quiet cheap enough and Risc-V just isn't there yet. So I'd like to see someone throw their hat seriously in the ARM ring until Power becomes cheap enough or RISC-V gets there. Plenty of people producing Intel/AMD machines, we have too many there.
  - cbsmith 4y ago
    I think the ChromeOS world has done a pretty good job of getting there. Yes, it's not quite as impressive as the Powerbooks, but they're able to get surprisingly close with a much smaller budget.
varenc 4y ago
> underclocks from ~4.4GHz to ~1.5-2.5GHz when on battery (seemingly no way to disable this) digression: I believe there's no way to disable that because the laptop's battery is physically incapable of reliably supplying the necessary amperage at those higher clock rates. It's an 80 watt-hour battery for a laptop that needs a 200W+ power adapter. The battery can't drain that fast even if it wanted to.

mdasen 4y ago

Yea, I upgraded to an M1 Pro and it's truly amazing. I used to always look at benchmarks and always want to upgrade to the newest thing that was coming out. Now I have a laptop that feels like it just works. It doesn't get hot, I've never heard the fan, and just so many of the typical worries/concerns just aren't there for me anymore. Yesterday, there was an article about Intel showing off a "35 watt" chip that was benchmarking better than last year's 125 watt chip. Except, you go into the comments and people note that it'll draw 107 watts for short periods of time - probably just long enough to get good benchmark scores. The magic of the M-series processors is that they have really great sustainable performance and without needing to draw power and create heat like Intel's. The Razor Blade machines are amazing in how they deal with the amount of heat generated with their liquid cooling and everything (it's quite a design), but as you note it's still a jet-engine sounding machine that requires being tethered to power. One of the big things that Apple showed off when introducing the M1 Pro/Max was the idea that you could be a creator doing your job and no longer feel like you were tied to a power outlet. Photoshop from a park or edit video wherever you are: you really don't need more power than you'll always have with you. As I said, I bought the M1 Pro and specifically upgraded to the 8 performance core version of it. I'd always bought the high-watt Intel processors for my MacBook, not the paltry 15W Intel parts. I had a 2020 MacBook Pro with 2.3GHz Core i7 (28W, 10nm) and I'd regularly have it get really hot, the fan often wasn't too loud but it was always a constant drone, and things felt slow. My next machine is going to be a MacBook Air. I feel like I'm using nothing on this machine. I have 8 performance cores and 2 efficiency cores, but it just feels like there's no point to having that much CPU. It's a really crazy feeling for me. Yes, more performance will be useful for some people, especially people who do video editing, graphics, etc. But damn does all my work never even come close to stressing this thing - something I'd regularly have a problem with on Intel's greatest drawing a lot more power and making a lot more heat just a year before. Intel has made some strides since then and I'm happy that their newer processors are doing well, but for the first time in my life it just feels like I don't care. I might grab a 3nm laptop from Apple when those come out, but I'm not anxiously awaiting them. I might just wait for whatever comes after TSMC's 3nm process. I am kinda excited that I can go to a MacBook Air.

ako 4y ago
Stories like yours made me upgrade my home computer to an iPad Air 2022. It’s basically an M1 laptop with a touch screen, and when you pair it with a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse, and attach it to an external display, it feels like a full pc.
- nicoburns 4y ago
  > it feels like a full pc The hardware is basically equivalent, but unfortunately that's far from the case with the software. It's definitely useable as a home computer if you mainly browse the web or use office apps. But there's a lot of software that just isn't supported on the ipad. It would be pretty useless for me as a software developer.
  - ako 4y ago
    Correct, it’s not a good tool for programmers, but many other jobs it’s a great tool: photo organization and editing, video editing, note taking, learning and playing music (connected to a guitar), writing and dictating texts (Dropbox paper), creating texts and presentations (ms office or pages/keynote), reading news (browser, Flipboard, get pocket), watching videos/Netflix/prime, controlling music on the HomePod mini, banking, home control (control thermostat). The only reason I still have a laptop is software development.

johnwalkr 4y ago

I use the slightly older 14” macbook at work and since I’m always in different meeting rooms, and only at my desk for half the day I charge it like I charge my phone. If I notice it’s low, I charge it when I go for lunch or whatever.

cbsmith 4y ago

I'm not sure I'd attribute that much to the CPU design though. On a typical laptop, CPU power consumption is <20% of the picture.

Uehreka 4y ago
Well in that case: whether it’s the CPU, or the way CPU/GPU/RAM are tightly coupled on the SoC, or the 4Kish MiniLED screen (which never seems to be dim), or some sort magic glue between the battery cells… Apple is doing something spectacular, and other manufacturers need to figure out how to do it too.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Most signs point to it being hardware-related. Without any Mac-specific optimization, the Asahi folks got fairly long runtimes out of the CPU (which makes sense, ARM has low idle draws). Frankly though, I don't want most manufacturers to make ARM machines. While Apple is allowed to monopolize the latest TSMC silicon, it's completely pointless trying to compete with them. May as well focus on delivering a great x86 experience with AMD and switching to something more open like RISC-V when the time comes.
  - tcmart14 4y ago
    I agree with your sentiment for the most part. I would love to see someone take RISC-V or Power seriously to compete in the consumer space with an ISA. However, I don't think Power is quiet cheap enough and Risc-V just isn't there yet. So I'd like to see someone throw their hat seriously in the ARM ring until Power becomes cheap enough or RISC-V gets there. Plenty of people producing Intel/AMD machines, we have too many there.
- cbsmith 4y ago
  I think the ChromeOS world has done a pretty good job of getting there. Yes, it's not quite as impressive as the Powerbooks, but they're able to get surprisingly close with a much smaller budget.

varenc 4y ago

> underclocks from ~4.4GHz to ~1.5-2.5GHz when on battery (seemingly no way to disable this) digression: I believe there's no way to disable that because the laptop's battery is physically incapable of reliably supplying the necessary amperage at those higher clock rates. It's an 80 watt-hour battery for a laptop that needs a 200W+ power adapter. The battery can't drain that fast even if it wanted to.