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Honestly, I'm surprised by "follow the river" as a flight instruction. That sounds like the directions you'd get from someone that doesn't understand cardinal d

Honestly, I'm surprised by "follow the river" as a flight instruction. That sounds like the directions you'd get from someone that doesn't understand cardinal directions. "Turn right at the gas station, then turn left at the big oak tree" or something. I have no experience with flying, but I assumed it would be a heading / cardinal direction and not "turn right at [landmark]"

throw827474737 4y ago
Hmm, can someone just paint me that path into Google Maps? Washington National has no 18, but only a 19, and I guess everyone takes off southwards as directly north is the White House? Also the river is like parallel to the runway and then the natural extension of it, so "follow the river" there is super clear, no turn needed? I must be looking at the wrong airport?
- tylermw 4y ago
  Many planes take off northwards, and immediately bank to follow the river. Famously, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Florida_Flight_90 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Florida_Flight_90
- snowwrestler 4y ago
  When planes take off northbound from National, they immediately bank left (northwest) to remain over the river and avoid the exclusion zones in DC. Conversely, planes landing southbound follow the river and so are banking to the right until a few seconds before touching down.
- cowsup 4y ago
  You’re correct. I live near DC and travel there for photography (much like the novice pilot in the OP). If you’re flying near DC, or anywhere really, you should at least have a broad understanding of where you cannot fly. That is your responsibility; nobody in your ear will say “remember, don’t go to the restricted airspace.” The pilot never claims to be the victim here, either. They screwed up and learned their lesson.
- wolrah 4y ago
  > Washington National has no 18, but only a 19 Depending on how long ago this happened that could be the same runway. There was an article that made the front page here in the last month or so about how the movement of the magnetic poles requires runway names to be adjusted periodically. This isn't that same article, I didn't feel like digging through my history, but it explains the same topic. https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/news/airport-runway-names-shift-magnetic-field https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/news/airport-runway-names-shift-ma... Agreed on the rest though, I just can't figure out a path that makes this story make sense.
  - etothepii 4y ago
    Indeed but CGPGrey explains it in excruciating detail on YouTube. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qD6bPNZRRbQ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qD6bPNZRRbQ
    - ocdtrekkie 4y ago
      I always find it funny how shortly after CGPGrey posts about a thing (or John Oliver does a segment on LWT), a large number of commenters will speak on it as experts at the next available opportunity. It's obvious how many of us watch the same channels.
    - throw827474737 4y ago
      Thanks for all and that link, but yeah I was assuming 18==19 already and meant to understand runway numbers, maybe should have left out that detail. Actual question still sticks: Takeoff on 18 southwards basically makes you follow the river immediately. Where did this guy encounter his left/right decision, to get back towards white house? he must have made almost a uturn then? And even assuming the article is a bit inaccurate and he took of northwards (thanks for pointing out the patterns pilots have to fly if doing that @ others): I still cannot imagine how that plane flew and where it matches the description of: "When I reached 1500 feet I looked down. I was crossing the river. It went right and left." ???
- dwater 4y ago
  I used to sit nearby on my lunch break, and on a clear day you could watch planes after takeoff clearly follow the course of the river N/NW until completely out of sight, which would probably have been close the DC/Maryland border. They would be going in and out every few minutes and they all took the exact same flight path.
advisedwang 4y ago
"follow the river" is more than a single turn; the river winds so it's a sequence of turns. Because of this saying follow the river is much more concise than the specific turns. Many of the takeoff and landing patterns do follow the river: https://skyvector.com/airport/DCA/Ronald-Reagan-Washington-Ntl-Airport https://skyvector.com/airport/DCA/Ronald-Reagan-Washington-N...
treis 4y ago
It's fairly obvious when you look at the map: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ronald+Reagan+Washington+National+Airport/@38.9443854,-77.1246524,11.39z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89b7b731402fe095:0x4168af016d076bad!8m2!3d38.851242!4d-77.0402315 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ronald+Reagan+Washington+N... Left is upstream and away from DC. Right is towards restricted airspace.
jcrawfordor 4y ago
This is a fairly common instruction from a controller in my experience, at least when dealing with small aircraft that they know are flying VFR. Traditional VFR navigation ("pilotage") is mostly based on finding landmarks anyway. Flying in another city with a runway pointed towards a river, "turn after the river," "report crossing the river" are common instructions. Other landmarks popular with controllers include the freeway, the big Marriot, the Amazon warehouse, etc. It's sort of surprisingly informal when controllers are dealing with local light aircraft pilots. But that's mostly how those pilots are navigating anyway, "follow the freeway until the bridge." There probably is a certain risk of misunderstanding here, but then pilots are expected to be reasonably familiar with the local area and its procedures, and to ask for vectors when unsure. These days DC is one of those places that it's strongly recommended (required by FARs now, I think?) to take a familiarization course because the airspace issues there are so sensitive. Plus they have the laser gun to minimize the need to send fighters.
- tjohns 4y ago
  Indeed. Popular landmarks used by ATC in the SF Bay Area include a sunken ship in the middle of the bay, a (particularly large) church, a community college, an AT&T telephone office, the KNBR antenna, and major freeways. Among others. It's different when flying IFR, but pilotage is an important part of VFR navigation. It's also worth noting there's an IFR visual approach plate for DCA that basically says the same thing - "follow the river": RIVER VISUAL RWY 19 - https://www.fly.faa.gov/Information/east/zdc/dca/atcCharts/DCA_CVFP_00443RIVER_VIS19.pdf https://www.fly.faa.gov/Information/east/zdc/dca/atcCharts/D...
  - quest88 4y ago
    Don't forget Embassy Suites! Ha.
dbrueck 4y ago
It's actually fairly common (in my area, for example, it's common for the controller to tell you to follow the interstate for awhile, and it works especially well at night). Keep in mind too that just telling someone to fly a certain direction is insufficient - the controller is trying to maintain separation among aircraft, so they need you to follow a particular path through a volume.
quest88 4y ago
Nah it's pretty common. When I take people around the golden gate bridge ATC tells me "Remain west of the 101 / Keep the 101 off your right at or below 2,000". And then later "Remain north and west of bay bridge".

throw827474737 4y ago

Hmm, can someone just paint me that path into Google Maps? Washington National has no 18, but only a 19, and I guess everyone takes off southwards as directly north is the White House? Also the river is like parallel to the runway and then the natural extension of it, so "follow the river" there is super clear, no turn needed? I must be looking at the wrong airport?

tylermw 4y ago
Many planes take off northwards, and immediately bank to follow the river. Famously, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Florida_Flight_90 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Florida_Flight_90
snowwrestler 4y ago
When planes take off northbound from National, they immediately bank left (northwest) to remain over the river and avoid the exclusion zones in DC. Conversely, planes landing southbound follow the river and so are banking to the right until a few seconds before touching down.
cowsup 4y ago
You’re correct. I live near DC and travel there for photography (much like the novice pilot in the OP). If you’re flying near DC, or anywhere really, you should at least have a broad understanding of where you cannot fly. That is your responsibility; nobody in your ear will say “remember, don’t go to the restricted airspace.” The pilot never claims to be the victim here, either. They screwed up and learned their lesson.
wolrah 4y ago
> Washington National has no 18, but only a 19 Depending on how long ago this happened that could be the same runway. There was an article that made the front page here in the last month or so about how the movement of the magnetic poles requires runway names to be adjusted periodically. This isn't that same article, I didn't feel like digging through my history, but it explains the same topic. https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/news/airport-runway-names-shift-magnetic-field https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/news/airport-runway-names-shift-ma... Agreed on the rest though, I just can't figure out a path that makes this story make sense.
- etothepii 4y ago
  Indeed but CGPGrey explains it in excruciating detail on YouTube. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qD6bPNZRRbQ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qD6bPNZRRbQ
  - ocdtrekkie 4y ago
    I always find it funny how shortly after CGPGrey posts about a thing (or John Oliver does a segment on LWT), a large number of commenters will speak on it as experts at the next available opportunity. It's obvious how many of us watch the same channels.
  - throw827474737 4y ago
    Thanks for all and that link, but yeah I was assuming 18==19 already and meant to understand runway numbers, maybe should have left out that detail. Actual question still sticks: Takeoff on 18 southwards basically makes you follow the river immediately. Where did this guy encounter his left/right decision, to get back towards white house? he must have made almost a uturn then? And even assuming the article is a bit inaccurate and he took of northwards (thanks for pointing out the patterns pilots have to fly if doing that @ others): I still cannot imagine how that plane flew and where it matches the description of: "When I reached 1500 feet I looked down. I was crossing the river. It went right and left." ???
dwater 4y ago
I used to sit nearby on my lunch break, and on a clear day you could watch planes after takeoff clearly follow the course of the river N/NW until completely out of sight, which would probably have been close the DC/Maryland border. They would be going in and out every few minutes and they all took the exact same flight path.

advisedwang 4y ago

"follow the river" is more than a single turn; the river winds so it's a sequence of turns. Because of this saying follow the river is much more concise than the specific turns. Many of the takeoff and landing patterns do follow the river: https://skyvector.com/airport/DCA/Ronald-Reagan-Washington-Ntl-Airport https://skyvector.com/airport/DCA/Ronald-Reagan-Washington-N...

treis 4y ago

It's fairly obvious when you look at the map: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ronald+Reagan+Washington+National+Airport/@38.9443854,-77.1246524,11.39z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89b7b731402fe095:0x4168af016d076bad!8m2!3d38.851242!4d-77.0402315 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ronald+Reagan+Washington+N... Left is upstream and away from DC. Right is towards restricted airspace.

jcrawfordor 4y ago

This is a fairly common instruction from a controller in my experience, at least when dealing with small aircraft that they know are flying VFR. Traditional VFR navigation ("pilotage") is mostly based on finding landmarks anyway. Flying in another city with a runway pointed towards a river, "turn after the river," "report crossing the river" are common instructions. Other landmarks popular with controllers include the freeway, the big Marriot, the Amazon warehouse, etc. It's sort of surprisingly informal when controllers are dealing with local light aircraft pilots. But that's mostly how those pilots are navigating anyway, "follow the freeway until the bridge." There probably is a certain risk of misunderstanding here, but then pilots are expected to be reasonably familiar with the local area and its procedures, and to ask for vectors when unsure. These days DC is one of those places that it's strongly recommended (required by FARs now, I think?) to take a familiarization course because the airspace issues there are so sensitive. Plus they have the laser gun to minimize the need to send fighters.

tjohns 4y ago
Indeed. Popular landmarks used by ATC in the SF Bay Area include a sunken ship in the middle of the bay, a (particularly large) church, a community college, an AT&T telephone office, the KNBR antenna, and major freeways. Among others. It's different when flying IFR, but pilotage is an important part of VFR navigation. It's also worth noting there's an IFR visual approach plate for DCA that basically says the same thing - "follow the river": RIVER VISUAL RWY 19 - https://www.fly.faa.gov/Information/east/zdc/dca/atcCharts/DCA_CVFP_00443RIVER_VIS19.pdf https://www.fly.faa.gov/Information/east/zdc/dca/atcCharts/D...
- quest88 4y ago
  Don't forget Embassy Suites! Ha.

dbrueck 4y ago

It's actually fairly common (in my area, for example, it's common for the controller to tell you to follow the interstate for awhile, and it works especially well at night). Keep in mind too that just telling someone to fly a certain direction is insufficient - the controller is trying to maintain separation among aircraft, so they need you to follow a particular path through a volume.

quest88 4y ago

Nah it's pretty common. When I take people around the golden gate bridge ATC tells me "Remain west of the 101 / Keep the 101 off your right at or below 2,000". And then later "Remain north and west of bay bridge".