5 ms·

Way fucking cheaper than 40. Closer to $16 unless you really need DDR5. Even then, it's still around $29/8gb if buying 32gb or more. The issue is that Apple

Way fucking cheaper than 40. Closer to $16 unless you really need DDR5. Even then, it's still around $29/8gb if buying 32gb or more. The issue is that Apple is integrating the RAM in the SoC. Personally, I'm not really a fan of "smart-phonification" of my desktop computers. I get that the mini is in a bit of a weird spot, since it's still got fairly challenging size constraints, but still... not my cup of tea.

qwytw 4y ago
Intel minis have upgradeable memory and their internals took up way more space compared to the (old) m1 mac mini at least.
Nextgrid 4y ago
> The issue is that Apple is integrating the RAM in the SoC Aren't there legitimate technical reasons for including the RAM in the SoC such as better bandwidth?
loufe 4y ago
The integration into the SoC is partially responsible for the amazing performance. The extra travelling distance for a click-in ram stick adds up, in terms of latency, quickly
- astrange 4y ago
  Memory latency on the M1/M2 is no better than other systems. Other things are better, but not that.
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    The memory bandwidth is a hell of a lot better than that $16 8GB stick mentioned upthread, though. 100GB/s on the M2 or 200GB/s on the M2 Pro. It may be possible to find actual comps with similar performance at a much lower price than Apple charges, but that $16 stick ain't it, or even close.
- NavinF 4y ago
  That should happen in the future, but so far Apple hasn't really taken advantage of the massive improvement in signal integrity and their latency is similar to desktop x86. If someone figures out how to overclock one of these machines, we can find out if they're just being extremely conservative or if the memory controller is extremely weak compared to what you see on x86 desktop CPUs.
- kimixa 4y ago
  Not really less latency so much as the signalling can be run at much higher speed and/or much lower power without having to worry about stuff like the optional termination, the electrical properties of the socket->dimm connection itself, and much shorter track lengths. It also allows you to have as wide a bus as you want, limited by cost of packaging and die sizes on the package, instead of dimm size and board layout, which naturally has a much higher trace pitch than the package. The higher speed "may" cause lower latency, but it's likely secondary at best.

qwytw 4y ago

Intel minis have upgradeable memory and their internals took up way more space compared to the (old) m1 mac mini at least.

Nextgrid 4y ago

> The issue is that Apple is integrating the RAM in the SoC Aren't there legitimate technical reasons for including the RAM in the SoC such as better bandwidth?

loufe 4y ago

The integration into the SoC is partially responsible for the amazing performance. The extra travelling distance for a click-in ram stick adds up, in terms of latency, quickly

astrange 4y ago
Memory latency on the M1/M2 is no better than other systems. Other things are better, but not that.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  The memory bandwidth is a hell of a lot better than that $16 8GB stick mentioned upthread, though. 100GB/s on the M2 or 200GB/s on the M2 Pro. It may be possible to find actual comps with similar performance at a much lower price than Apple charges, but that $16 stick ain't it, or even close.
NavinF 4y ago
That should happen in the future, but so far Apple hasn't really taken advantage of the massive improvement in signal integrity and their latency is similar to desktop x86. If someone figures out how to overclock one of these machines, we can find out if they're just being extremely conservative or if the memory controller is extremely weak compared to what you see on x86 desktop CPUs.
kimixa 4y ago
Not really less latency so much as the signalling can be run at much higher speed and/or much lower power without having to worry about stuff like the optional termination, the electrical properties of the socket->dimm connection itself, and much shorter track lengths. It also allows you to have as wide a bus as you want, limited by cost of packaging and die sizes on the package, instead of dimm size and board layout, which naturally has a much higher trace pitch than the package. The higher speed "may" cause lower latency, but it's likely secondary at best.