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Another critical difference: we can store propane inside of steel and/or concrete containers. There are a few "steel and concrete" containers that can hold elec

Another critical difference: we can store propane inside of steel and/or concrete containers. There are a few "steel and concrete" containers that can hold electricity (ex: Pumped Hydro), but the bulk of our technology is in Li-ion / rarer metals. Steel and Concrete are two of the cheapest materials we have. Anything that uses it (rather than more expensive stuff) is strictly an advantage.

actionfromafar 4y ago
I don't quite understand your point. Electricity is commonly produced by carbon neutral processes. Propane is (approximately) never. So to compare steel+concrete to batteries feels like a non sequitur to me.
- p1mrx 4y ago
  It is possible to make renewable methanol, convert it into dimethyl ether, and then store/use it in a manner similar to propane: https://www.aboutdme.org/aboutdme/files/cclibraryfiles/filename/000000004180/rDME_Fact_Sheet_General.pdf https://www.aboutdme.org/aboutdme/files/cclibraryfiles/filen... I could imagine a future where we use heat pumps with propane/rDME backup for power outages or extreme cold weather events, assuming that it won't be profitable to maintain residential natural gas for infrequent use.
- dragontamer 4y ago
  There's a number of biofuels that emulate fossil fuels. Ex: Ethanol emulates Gasoline. Synthetic bio-propane seems to be available too. If we are to be discussing bio-propane vs batteries, the storage benefits are key.
  - akiselev 4y ago
    Most of the waste from biofuel production [1] is used as animal feed, so double green! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distillers_grains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distillers_grains
    - dragontamer 4y ago
      Ehhh, I'm actually kind of bearish on grains as bio-fuel. I'd like to see the switchgrass biofuel take off. A surprising amount of emissions in the USA (and Brazil) are due to deforestation associated with turning forests into farmland. That's largely mitigated by using "natural plants", like switchgrass instead of farm crops. I mean, its all "solar power into fuel", which is great. But its also important to recognize that some (ie: switchgrass based biofuel) are better than others (ex: grain or corn based biofuel).

actionfromafar 4y ago

I don't quite understand your point. Electricity is commonly produced by carbon neutral processes. Propane is (approximately) never. So to compare steel+concrete to batteries feels like a non sequitur to me.

p1mrx 4y ago
It is possible to make renewable methanol, convert it into dimethyl ether, and then store/use it in a manner similar to propane: https://www.aboutdme.org/aboutdme/files/cclibraryfiles/filename/000000004180/rDME_Fact_Sheet_General.pdf https://www.aboutdme.org/aboutdme/files/cclibraryfiles/filen... I could imagine a future where we use heat pumps with propane/rDME backup for power outages or extreme cold weather events, assuming that it won't be profitable to maintain residential natural gas for infrequent use.
dragontamer 4y ago
There's a number of biofuels that emulate fossil fuels. Ex: Ethanol emulates Gasoline. Synthetic bio-propane seems to be available too. If we are to be discussing bio-propane vs batteries, the storage benefits are key.
- akiselev 4y ago
  Most of the waste from biofuel production [1] is used as animal feed, so double green! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distillers_grains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distillers_grains
  - dragontamer 4y ago
    Ehhh, I'm actually kind of bearish on grains as bio-fuel. I'd like to see the switchgrass biofuel take off. A surprising amount of emissions in the USA (and Brazil) are due to deforestation associated with turning forests into farmland. That's largely mitigated by using "natural plants", like switchgrass instead of farm crops. I mean, its all "solar power into fuel", which is great. But its also important to recognize that some (ie: switchgrass based biofuel) are better than others (ex: grain or corn based biofuel).