4 ms·

$4,500 maxed out. $4,500 for a Mac mini. God. They really think people are going to pay $4,500 for a Mac mini, don't they?

ChildOfChaos 4y ago
No, it's $599, with a load of extra customised options that allow people to add what they want, you cannot even buy this one in a store, you have to do a custom order, your regular user, walking into an electronic store will buy a base model. You've specced it up with every customisation possible, that 999.999999% of buyers won't do and won't need and then complain at the cost in an effort to bash Apple,
- gymbeaux 4y ago
  I'm not trying to bash Apple in bad faith, but let's be real the $599 model is inadequate. 8GB of RAM and a 256GB SSD in 2023. There's plenty out there on the M1 Mac mini's 8GB being a bad idea even for casual users. I had an 8GB M1 mini when it first came out and returned it because it was swapping to the SSD with like 3 apps open (nothing like an IDE or Docker or Adobe X Y Z). I just find it humorous that you can spend several thousand dollars on a Mac mini, Mac Pro, or Mac Studio. It seems like there's a lot of product overlap to me.
  - dbbk 4y ago
    The $599 model is for a basic user who barely does anything more than browse the web and send emails (which is to say, a lot of people). It's not a pro machine.
    - theshrike79 4y ago
      I'm a "pro", but don't do 8k video editing. Still haven't maxed out the M1 mini. Except when Zoom or Discord start taking weird amounts of CPU for literally no reason :D
      - gymbeaux 4y ago
        I know from personal experience that if you are using the mini for anything of substance, and only have 8GB of RAM, you are using your SSD as "RAM" more than you probably realize.
    - gymbeaux 4y ago
      I feel like such a "basic user" would be better-served with an iPad or even a MacBook Air, unless they happen to have a monitor, mouse, keyboard, speakers and webcam from, say, their old PC. Historically Apple has marketed the mini as a "gateway drug" to Macs. Cheap, and people can just reuse the peripherals they already have. Even now I wouldn't recommend an entry-level mini to that "email and web" crowd.
    - AstixAndBelix 4y ago
      I feel this website is a strange bubble. I use an underpowered laptop from 2013 for all my daily tasks including light photo, video and audio manipulation and I have no problems. Why does it always have to be about videogames, heavy creative work, multiple VMs or compiling gigantic codebases?
      - gymbeaux 4y ago
        One thing to keep in mind is the demand of the specific OS/applications you are running. For example, 1GB of RAM is plenty for Windows XP, but 4GB for Windows 10/11 is abysmal. This is more or less why Linux is such a popular choice for repurposing old computers.
  - peanuty1 4y ago
    256GB of storage is more than enough for me personally. I'm also the kind of person for whom 64GB is more than enough on a phone.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    > let's be real the $599 model is inadequate For most of the folks on HN, that's probably true. We're an edge case. For my parents? A Mac mini is gonna be more than enough. There are folks happilly using Chromebooks with a tenth of the power.
    - gymbeaux 4y ago
      But why would you buy them a Mac mini of all things?
      - ceejayoz 4y ago
        Because I've fielded all sorts of "my PC has a virus / isn't working right" calls, but near-zero numbers of them for their Macs, and they don't need a laptop that's 2x the cost.
  - duped 4y ago
    My 2016 Macbook air had 8GB of RAM and a 256GB SSD, and that was bad for 2016. You can buy 1TB NVME SSD for $100 to upgrade any off-the-shelf SFFPC. There's not much excuse why Apple can't do the same, other than to get you to subscribe to iCloud storage.
  - jmull 4y ago
    Many people use 8GB/256GB happily. It's like a faith amongst some people that this is bad, but the idea seems to lack evidence.
    - gymbeaux 4y ago
      "many people" is as anecdotal as it gets. I don't know anybody who A) only needs 8GB/256GB and B) isn't better-served by an iPad or something similar. I think if anyone from Apple Marketing is reading this thread, they are laughing at how people are so instinctively buying into the entry-level Mac mini. The biggest value-add the $599 Mac mini has is that Apple can say Macs start at "just $599". There will always be some non-zero number of people who either want or are genuinely best-served by something like the entry-level Mac mini, but that doesn't equate to it being a generally-good option.
      - ceejayoz 4y ago
        > "many people" is as anecdotal as it gets. I don't know anybody who... lol
        gymbeaux 4y ago
        I got ya beat. You don't know anybody who meets that criteria, either.
      - jmull 4y ago
        The onus is really on you to back up your claim that 8GB/256GB isn't enough. I don't see what iPads have to do with this at all. Surely tablet vs desktop is an entirely different decision.
        gymbeaux 4y ago
        It's just ironic that some people here are really pushing a $599 Mac mini as a valid option, while ignoring tablets. The argument that a Mac mini is a great alternative to a PC in that malware isn't an issue is totally valid, but iPads benefit from that too (and are often less than $599). As I'm sure you know, there are many articles, threads, et. al. out there about whether 8GB is enough for a Mac. We can link articles back and forth all day, but here's what it comes down to: with only 8GB of RAM, even light use will see the Mac offload to swap much more often than if it had 16GB to work with, and one of the first "scandals" that arose from the M1 Macs was that bytes written to the internal SSD was much, much higher than it should have been, because of that swap usage.
Kerrick 4y ago
Dell's XPS tower starts at $749 (8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, Intel 12400) and can be maxed out (not including support contracts) for $5200. Heck, a Ford Maverick starts at $22,195 and can be customized maxed out at over $40,000. This is not an uncommon pattern.
- gymbeaux 4y ago
  True, but I would argue that it actually makes some sense for the XPS, Dell's only "pro desktop" option (does Vostro count as "pro"?). That the Mac mini can cost either X or ~10X is more like saying "a car starts at $15k and can cost $150k". Throw in that it clearly overlaps with the Mac Pro and Mac Studio and I can only ask "why would I pick X, Y or Z?" It seems like the Studio is the way to go vs a mini configured above or around $2000, unless Apple is simply peddling to datacenter customers with Mac mini server racks (which hey, maybe).
  - Kerrick 4y ago
    XPS is Dell's premium lifestyle model. OptiPlex is their enterprise/pro model (which starts at $499). I didn't talk about "a car" in the generic sense, I talked about a single model--not even multiple models from the same manufacturer (Apple:Ford::Mac Mini:Maverick).
    - gymbeaux 4y ago
      That's my point. Within the same model is a variance in price expected of the entire industry at the macro level. You can't argue that XPS is "premium lifestyle", that's what Dell says it is, but that's not what it ends up being in reality. I will say XPS/Optiplex are both the "pro" stuff (pro as in MacBook Pro, not necessarily Pro as in "used in corporate IT most often").

ChildOfChaos 4y ago

No, it's $599, with a load of extra customised options that allow people to add what they want, you cannot even buy this one in a store, you have to do a custom order, your regular user, walking into an electronic store will buy a base model. You've specced it up with every customisation possible, that 999.999999% of buyers won't do and won't need and then complain at the cost in an effort to bash Apple,

gymbeaux 4y ago
I'm not trying to bash Apple in bad faith, but let's be real the $599 model is inadequate. 8GB of RAM and a 256GB SSD in 2023. There's plenty out there on the M1 Mac mini's 8GB being a bad idea even for casual users. I had an 8GB M1 mini when it first came out and returned it because it was swapping to the SSD with like 3 apps open (nothing like an IDE or Docker or Adobe X Y Z). I just find it humorous that you can spend several thousand dollars on a Mac mini, Mac Pro, or Mac Studio. It seems like there's a lot of product overlap to me.
- dbbk 4y ago
  The $599 model is for a basic user who barely does anything more than browse the web and send emails (which is to say, a lot of people). It's not a pro machine.
  - theshrike79 4y ago
    I'm a "pro", but don't do 8k video editing. Still haven't maxed out the M1 mini. Except when Zoom or Discord start taking weird amounts of CPU for literally no reason :D
    - gymbeaux 4y ago
      I know from personal experience that if you are using the mini for anything of substance, and only have 8GB of RAM, you are using your SSD as "RAM" more than you probably realize.
  - gymbeaux 4y ago
    I feel like such a "basic user" would be better-served with an iPad or even a MacBook Air, unless they happen to have a monitor, mouse, keyboard, speakers and webcam from, say, their old PC. Historically Apple has marketed the mini as a "gateway drug" to Macs. Cheap, and people can just reuse the peripherals they already have. Even now I wouldn't recommend an entry-level mini to that "email and web" crowd.
  - AstixAndBelix 4y ago
    I feel this website is a strange bubble. I use an underpowered laptop from 2013 for all my daily tasks including light photo, video and audio manipulation and I have no problems. Why does it always have to be about videogames, heavy creative work, multiple VMs or compiling gigantic codebases?
    - gymbeaux 4y ago
      One thing to keep in mind is the demand of the specific OS/applications you are running. For example, 1GB of RAM is plenty for Windows XP, but 4GB for Windows 10/11 is abysmal. This is more or less why Linux is such a popular choice for repurposing old computers.
- peanuty1 4y ago
  256GB of storage is more than enough for me personally. I'm also the kind of person for whom 64GB is more than enough on a phone.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  > let's be real the $599 model is inadequate For most of the folks on HN, that's probably true. We're an edge case. For my parents? A Mac mini is gonna be more than enough. There are folks happilly using Chromebooks with a tenth of the power.
  - gymbeaux 4y ago
    But why would you buy them a Mac mini of all things?
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      Because I've fielded all sorts of "my PC has a virus / isn't working right" calls, but near-zero numbers of them for their Macs, and they don't need a laptop that's 2x the cost.
- duped 4y ago
  My 2016 Macbook air had 8GB of RAM and a 256GB SSD, and that was bad for 2016. You can buy 1TB NVME SSD for $100 to upgrade any off-the-shelf SFFPC. There's not much excuse why Apple can't do the same, other than to get you to subscribe to iCloud storage.
- jmull 4y ago
  Many people use 8GB/256GB happily. It's like a faith amongst some people that this is bad, but the idea seems to lack evidence.
  - gymbeaux 4y ago
    "many people" is as anecdotal as it gets. I don't know anybody who A) only needs 8GB/256GB and B) isn't better-served by an iPad or something similar. I think if anyone from Apple Marketing is reading this thread, they are laughing at how people are so instinctively buying into the entry-level Mac mini. The biggest value-add the $599 Mac mini has is that Apple can say Macs start at "just $599". There will always be some non-zero number of people who either want or are genuinely best-served by something like the entry-level Mac mini, but that doesn't equate to it being a generally-good option.
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      > "many people" is as anecdotal as it gets. I don't know anybody who... lol
      - gymbeaux 4y ago
        I got ya beat. You don't know anybody who meets that criteria, either.
    - jmull 4y ago
      The onus is really on you to back up your claim that 8GB/256GB isn't enough. I don't see what iPads have to do with this at all. Surely tablet vs desktop is an entirely different decision.
      - gymbeaux 4y ago
        It's just ironic that some people here are really pushing a $599 Mac mini as a valid option, while ignoring tablets. The argument that a Mac mini is a great alternative to a PC in that malware isn't an issue is totally valid, but iPads benefit from that too (and are often less than $599). As I'm sure you know, there are many articles, threads, et. al. out there about whether 8GB is enough for a Mac. We can link articles back and forth all day, but here's what it comes down to: with only 8GB of RAM, even light use will see the Mac offload to swap much more often than if it had 16GB to work with, and one of the first "scandals" that arose from the M1 Macs was that bytes written to the internal SSD was much, much higher than it should have been, because of that swap usage.

Kerrick 4y ago

Dell's XPS tower starts at $749 (8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, Intel 12400) and can be maxed out (not including support contracts) for $5200. Heck, a Ford Maverick starts at $22,195 and can be customized maxed out at over $40,000. This is not an uncommon pattern.

gymbeaux 4y ago
True, but I would argue that it actually makes some sense for the XPS, Dell's only "pro desktop" option (does Vostro count as "pro"?). That the Mac mini can cost either X or ~10X is more like saying "a car starts at $15k and can cost $150k". Throw in that it clearly overlaps with the Mac Pro and Mac Studio and I can only ask "why would I pick X, Y or Z?" It seems like the Studio is the way to go vs a mini configured above or around $2000, unless Apple is simply peddling to datacenter customers with Mac mini server racks (which hey, maybe).
- Kerrick 4y ago
  XPS is Dell's premium lifestyle model. OptiPlex is their enterprise/pro model (which starts at $499). I didn't talk about "a car" in the generic sense, I talked about a single model--not even multiple models from the same manufacturer (Apple:Ford::Mac Mini:Maverick).
  - gymbeaux 4y ago
    That's my point. Within the same model is a variance in price expected of the entire industry at the macro level. You can't argue that XPS is "premium lifestyle", that's what Dell says it is, but that's not what it ends up being in reality. I will say XPS/Optiplex are both the "pro" stuff (pro as in MacBook Pro, not necessarily Pro as in "used in corporate IT most often").