10 ms·

Shame I can't buy an M2 Max on an ATX mobo.

judge2020 4y ago
I imagine a lot of the performance of the M1 and thereafter is a direct result of moving the memory closer to the die. The power efficiency, sure, that's all engineering, but super close and fast memory right next to the CPU is only one step away from AMD's 3D v-cache that has (had) the 5800X3D beating out newer 7000 series AMD chips.
- kcb 4y ago
  I think the bigger factor is that the 3D v-cache is SRAM, which is why it needs a whole stacked die for just 64mb.
- ac29 4y ago
  > I imagine a lot of the performance of the M1 and thereafter is a direct result of moving the memory closer to the die I'm not sure why this Apple marketing point gets repeated so often. The M2 has the same memory support as current Intel chips: 128-bit LPDDR5 6400. Mounting the memory on the same package as the CPU might have some engineering advantages compared to socketed RAM, but it doesnt make the (industry standard) memory any faster.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - cztomsik 4y ago
    IMHO the biggest advantage is the RAM->GPU VRAM pipeline, or at least, that was my experience before - whatever you want to send to the VRAM, it has to be in RAM first, and you have to wait until it gets copied, before you can use that RAM again. With unified memory it should not be necessary anymore (you just mark that part as input for GPU). Same should sort-of apply for iGPUs but I'm not 100% sure. And given that the whole MacOS is built around various GPU-accelerated frameworks, it kind-of matters a lot.
- Sebb767 4y ago
  ATX is just a formfactor, there's nothing preventing apple from releasing an ATX board with soldered-on memory - this is actually not even that unusual in the µATX formfactor.
BirAdam 4y ago
It would be cool to get the SoC on a socket like the Pentium II was, and then have some NVMe slots, PCIe slots, and more I/O ports. This would also be better for the planet if it was a standard feature of each Macintosh and just the SoC got replaced. Unfortunately, Apple's Macintosh line doesn't work that way. The first Macs were all-in-one designs, the 90s saw some heterogeneity, and then the Macintosh line came back to an all-in-one design (except for the MacPro line and the G4 Cube). Today, the G4 Cube is like something out of an alternate universe. Not only was it upgradable, it was also incredibly easy to "open up".

judge2020 4y ago

I imagine a lot of the performance of the M1 and thereafter is a direct result of moving the memory closer to the die. The power efficiency, sure, that's all engineering, but super close and fast memory right next to the CPU is only one step away from AMD's 3D v-cache that has (had) the 5800X3D beating out newer 7000 series AMD chips.

kcb 4y ago
I think the bigger factor is that the 3D v-cache is SRAM, which is why it needs a whole stacked die for just 64mb.
ac29 4y ago
> I imagine a lot of the performance of the M1 and thereafter is a direct result of moving the memory closer to the die I'm not sure why this Apple marketing point gets repeated so often. The M2 has the same memory support as current Intel chips: 128-bit LPDDR5 6400. Mounting the memory on the same package as the CPU might have some engineering advantages compared to socketed RAM, but it doesnt make the (industry standard) memory any faster.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- cztomsik 4y ago
  IMHO the biggest advantage is the RAM->GPU VRAM pipeline, or at least, that was my experience before - whatever you want to send to the VRAM, it has to be in RAM first, and you have to wait until it gets copied, before you can use that RAM again. With unified memory it should not be necessary anymore (you just mark that part as input for GPU). Same should sort-of apply for iGPUs but I'm not 100% sure. And given that the whole MacOS is built around various GPU-accelerated frameworks, it kind-of matters a lot.
Sebb767 4y ago
ATX is just a formfactor, there's nothing preventing apple from releasing an ATX board with soldered-on memory - this is actually not even that unusual in the µATX formfactor.

BirAdam 4y ago

It would be cool to get the SoC on a socket like the Pentium II was, and then have some NVMe slots, PCIe slots, and more I/O ports. This would also be better for the planet if it was a standard feature of each Macintosh and just the SoC got replaced. Unfortunately, Apple's Macintosh line doesn't work that way. The first Macs were all-in-one designs, the 90s saw some heterogeneity, and then the Macintosh line came back to an all-in-one design (except for the MacPro line and the G4 Cube). Today, the G4 Cube is like something out of an alternate universe. Not only was it upgradable, it was also incredibly easy to "open up".