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iTerm2 and lima [1] with a ARM64 Linux virtual machine w/ Rosetta (so I can still run x86_64 Linux code!) enabled me to fall in love with my MacBook Pro in this

by _fzslm 4y ago

iTerm2 and lima [1] with a ARM64 Linux virtual machine w/ Rosetta (so I can still run x86_64 Linux code!) enabled me to fall in love with my MacBook Pro in this regard. i feel more productive than on a Linux machine now. MacOS is not without its developer power tools, if you dig around enough! [1] https://github.com/lima-vm/lima https://github.com/lima-vm/lima

xtracto 4y ago
For me MacBookPro with M2 chips would be perfect if the 13in model allowed 64GB RAM. My workflow requires me to run Docker (intel images) heavily with several containers. Having a virtualization layer is pretty resource consuming. Usually the Docker + containers I use take around 5GB RAM alone. Under that configuration I've found 32GB to be just within the limit of usability. 16GB are just not enough. Also, for some virtualized Docker workflows, there is that known issue of slow File interaction through the Mac/virtualized file system, which makes working with say Magento, Drupal or simlar software REALLY slow. As a comparison, I've also got a 2011 intel MacBookPro with 16GB RAM. That one is running Linux Mint. Docker performance is almost transparent, and the system runs pretty snappy for development.
- nicoburns 4y ago
  What software are you using that doesn't have ARM versions available? I think it goes without saying that a machine with an ARM processor is not going to be ideal if you're frequently working with x86-specific software.
  - mbreese 4y ago
    I've needed some scientific software that still doesn't have ARM64 libraries available, so thus are stuck on x86. RStudio, for example, has a lot of dependencies and only recently starting offering experimental support for aarch64 on Linux.
- outcoldman 4y ago
  Really don't understand why Apple still selling 13" MBP, as MBP 14 is much better, and you can get it with up to 96GB of memory now. I would assume they keep 13" just for people who still likes TouchBar.
  - blippitybleep 4y ago
    I bought a 13” M2 for work (freelance dev) last week. It’s a weight and size thing for me. The 14” (I’ve had one before) seems to just cross the threshold for what I can comfortably carry when I’m out and about.
    - nicoburns 4y ago
      Why did you choose that over the MacBook Air?
      - blippitybleep 4y ago
        My impression is that the air can’t “gun it” for as long because of heat. Sometimes I run intensive stuff and I’d prefer the machine to turn the fans on rather than throttle the processor. With that said, the air is nice. It’s just not worth it to save 160 grams for my use case.
- toyg 4y ago
  Chances are Docker would be a dog on that 2011 too, if you were on MacOS. I honestly don't know how Docker got so popular when it sucks so much on anything that is not Linux.
  - justinsaccount 4y ago
    > I honestly don't know how Docker got so popular when it sucks so much on anything that is not Linux. How do these sound to you? I honestly don't know how Active Directory got so popular when it sucks so much on anything that is not Windows. I honestly don't know how Final Cut Pro got so popular when it sucks so much on anything that is not OS X.
    - toyg 4y ago
      They sound silly. The population that uses Active Directory lives almost exclusively on Windows. The population that uses FCP lives almost exclusively on MacOS (OSX is dead, long live OSX) The population that uses Docker does not live exclusively on Linux. In fact, a minority of developers works on Linux laptops, even when they target it for deployment. It's a larger minority than in other sectors, but it's definitely a minority, not even a relative majority. The population of (web) developers is possibly the most evenly-distributed of all, in terms of OS.
      - justinsaccount 4y ago
        If someone was trying to run an Active directory domain controller on a windows VM on a mac mini, what would you tell them? If someone was trying to run FCP on an OS X VM on a linux box, what would you tell them? It's not the fault of docker or linux containers that people insist on trying to use the technology on another unsupported operating system.
        toyg 4y ago
        > It's not the fault of docker or linux containers that people insist Obviously, it's the fault of people - as I said in the comment above: I'm surprised it got so popular among people, considering how much it sucks on the platforms lots of them use.
- tracker1 4y ago
  My personal laptop is an M1 Air (16gb)... for anything dev, I use VS Code + Remoting extensions and just work "on" my personal desktop (local or over vpn/wireguard). It means I can't really do much without an internet connection, but that's often the case anyway. I will say that a lot of the software I run in Docker has an aarch64 bundle... there are a few things that don't. There's now a beta version of Docker Desktop that includes Rosetta support, which should dramatically help for x86_64 images. I also have found that the FS I/O is not great, but getting better. (prior job was using M1 Max, current is windows+wsl)
- nicoburns 4y ago
  There is no M2-series MacBook Pro with a 32GB RAM limit. There is the legacy 13in version with regular M2 which has a 24GB limit (which IMO makes no sense at all - basically everyone would be better with the M2 air over the model). And there is the 14in model with M2 Pro/Max which has both 64GB and 96GB RAM options.
- memco 4y ago
  > For me MacBookPro with M2 chips would be perfect if the 13in model allowed 64GB RAM The new 14" model is only slightly bigger than the 13" (.4"x.4" bigger and .5lb heavier) and supports up to 96GB of RAM so may be a reasonable consolation if those size and weight compromises are tolerable for you. Additionally, you'd get a better screen, keyboard, more ports, better wifi and bluetooth, and more CPU & GPU capacity. Of course cost will also go up quite a bit. It would also help if the virtualization story on Macs improved so that you wouldn't need to have all that RAM just to compensate.
rerx 4y ago
It would be perfect if Rosetta supported AVX instructions. For instance, I could just install pre-built tensorflow binary packages in a x64 container on Lima then.
- johncalvinyoung 4y ago
  Man, I wish Rosetta (or Microsoft's ARM emulation) could support AVX. I understand it might be a patent issue. It's the one significant thing keeping me from running some of the software I'd like to on my MBP.
mbreese 4y ago
Don't forget about the related project colima[1] that makes it easier to run Docker containers from a Mac command prompt using a lima VM to host the containers. I'm not convinced on using volumes with colima yet, but it does make using dev containers a lot easier with Mac native VS Code. [1] https://github.com/abiosoft/colima https://github.com/abiosoft/colima
kdrag0n 4y ago
Shameless plug on this topic: I've been working on a new Linux+Docker+Kubernetes solution for macOS recently! Already has quite a few improvements over existing apps including Docker Desktop, Rancher, Colima, etc: fast networking (30 Gbps), VirtioFS and bidirectional filesystem sharing, Rosetta for fast x86, full Linux (not only Docker), lower CPU usage, and other tweaks. More details here to avoid spamming this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34374176 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34374176

by _fzslm 4y ago

xtracto 4y ago

For me MacBookPro with M2 chips would be perfect if the 13in model allowed 64GB RAM. My workflow requires me to run Docker (intel images) heavily with several containers. Having a virtualization layer is pretty resource consuming. Usually the Docker + containers I use take around 5GB RAM alone. Under that configuration I've found 32GB to be just within the limit of usability. 16GB are just not enough. Also, for some virtualized Docker workflows, there is that known issue of slow File interaction through the Mac/virtualized file system, which makes working with say Magento, Drupal or simlar software REALLY slow. As a comparison, I've also got a 2011 intel MacBookPro with 16GB RAM. That one is running Linux Mint. Docker performance is almost transparent, and the system runs pretty snappy for development.

nicoburns 4y ago
What software are you using that doesn't have ARM versions available? I think it goes without saying that a machine with an ARM processor is not going to be ideal if you're frequently working with x86-specific software.
- mbreese 4y ago
  I've needed some scientific software that still doesn't have ARM64 libraries available, so thus are stuck on x86. RStudio, for example, has a lot of dependencies and only recently starting offering experimental support for aarch64 on Linux.
outcoldman 4y ago
Really don't understand why Apple still selling 13" MBP, as MBP 14 is much better, and you can get it with up to 96GB of memory now. I would assume they keep 13" just for people who still likes TouchBar.
- blippitybleep 4y ago
  I bought a 13” M2 for work (freelance dev) last week. It’s a weight and size thing for me. The 14” (I’ve had one before) seems to just cross the threshold for what I can comfortably carry when I’m out and about.
  - nicoburns 4y ago
    Why did you choose that over the MacBook Air?
    - blippitybleep 4y ago
      My impression is that the air can’t “gun it” for as long because of heat. Sometimes I run intensive stuff and I’d prefer the machine to turn the fans on rather than throttle the processor. With that said, the air is nice. It’s just not worth it to save 160 grams for my use case.
toyg 4y ago
Chances are Docker would be a dog on that 2011 too, if you were on MacOS. I honestly don't know how Docker got so popular when it sucks so much on anything that is not Linux.
- justinsaccount 4y ago
  > I honestly don't know how Docker got so popular when it sucks so much on anything that is not Linux. How do these sound to you? I honestly don't know how Active Directory got so popular when it sucks so much on anything that is not Windows. I honestly don't know how Final Cut Pro got so popular when it sucks so much on anything that is not OS X.
  - toyg 4y ago
    They sound silly. The population that uses Active Directory lives almost exclusively on Windows. The population that uses FCP lives almost exclusively on MacOS (OSX is dead, long live OSX) The population that uses Docker does not live exclusively on Linux. In fact, a minority of developers works on Linux laptops, even when they target it for deployment. It's a larger minority than in other sectors, but it's definitely a minority, not even a relative majority. The population of (web) developers is possibly the most evenly-distributed of all, in terms of OS.
    - justinsaccount 4y ago
      If someone was trying to run an Active directory domain controller on a windows VM on a mac mini, what would you tell them? If someone was trying to run FCP on an OS X VM on a linux box, what would you tell them? It's not the fault of docker or linux containers that people insist on trying to use the technology on another unsupported operating system.
      - toyg 4y ago
        > It's not the fault of docker or linux containers that people insist Obviously, it's the fault of people - as I said in the comment above: I'm surprised it got so popular among people, considering how much it sucks on the platforms lots of them use.
tracker1 4y ago
My personal laptop is an M1 Air (16gb)... for anything dev, I use VS Code + Remoting extensions and just work "on" my personal desktop (local or over vpn/wireguard). It means I can't really do much without an internet connection, but that's often the case anyway. I will say that a lot of the software I run in Docker has an aarch64 bundle... there are a few things that don't. There's now a beta version of Docker Desktop that includes Rosetta support, which should dramatically help for x86_64 images. I also have found that the FS I/O is not great, but getting better. (prior job was using M1 Max, current is windows+wsl)
nicoburns 4y ago
There is no M2-series MacBook Pro with a 32GB RAM limit. There is the legacy 13in version with regular M2 which has a 24GB limit (which IMO makes no sense at all - basically everyone would be better with the M2 air over the model). And there is the 14in model with M2 Pro/Max which has both 64GB and 96GB RAM options.
memco 4y ago
> For me MacBookPro with M2 chips would be perfect if the 13in model allowed 64GB RAM The new 14" model is only slightly bigger than the 13" (.4"x.4" bigger and .5lb heavier) and supports up to 96GB of RAM so may be a reasonable consolation if those size and weight compromises are tolerable for you. Additionally, you'd get a better screen, keyboard, more ports, better wifi and bluetooth, and more CPU & GPU capacity. Of course cost will also go up quite a bit. It would also help if the virtualization story on Macs improved so that you wouldn't need to have all that RAM just to compensate.

rerx 4y ago

It would be perfect if Rosetta supported AVX instructions. For instance, I could just install pre-built tensorflow binary packages in a x64 container on Lima then.

johncalvinyoung 4y ago
Man, I wish Rosetta (or Microsoft's ARM emulation) could support AVX. I understand it might be a patent issue. It's the one significant thing keeping me from running some of the software I'd like to on my MBP.

mbreese 4y ago

Don't forget about the related project colima[1] that makes it easier to run Docker containers from a Mac command prompt using a lima VM to host the containers. I'm not convinced on using volumes with colima yet, but it does make using dev containers a lot easier with Mac native VS Code. [1] https://github.com/abiosoft/colima https://github.com/abiosoft/colima

kdrag0n 4y ago

Shameless plug on this topic: I've been working on a new Linux+Docker+Kubernetes solution for macOS recently! Already has quite a few improvements over existing apps including Docker Desktop, Rancher, Colima, etc: fast networking (30 Gbps), VirtioFS and bidirectional filesystem sharing, Rosetta for fast x86, full Linux (not only Docker), lower CPU usage, and other tweaks. More details here to avoid spamming this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34374176 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34374176