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"They tend to not sacrifice longevity over flashy technologies. " What? In what universe is this true? They spent generations of macbooks on flashy keyboards t

"They tend to not sacrifice longevity over flashy technologies. " What? In what universe is this true? They spent generations of macbooks on flashy keyboards that didn't work, etc. Trying to pain Apple's inability to keep up in certain area as them trying to care about longevity is hilarious. In the end - it's not about longevity at all, it's almost certainly about whether they can get it at the price point they want, in the volume they want. That's it.

bayindirh 4y ago
Well, when they screw up design, they do it in a spectacular fashion, yes. Considering I buy a new MacBook every decade and they just endure the torture I put them through (I don’t abuse them though), I can say that they are pretty well built machines. Same is true for my 7 year iPhone cycle. I pay similar price to top tier laptops of other big brands, and get what I pay for. Use it for a decade, move the machine to spare and get a new one. When one does this with a thinkpad, we applaud them. When someone does it with a MacBook, we don’t believe them. Funny.
- cantSpellSober 4y ago
  > "when they screw up design, they do it in a spectacular fashion" So they do sacrifice for flashiness? > "I buy a new MacBook every decade" Oh, a lot has happened in the last decade. This is an anecdote about 1 or 2 machines you've owned.
  - klodolph 4y ago
    “Torture” here is the wear and tear that a user inflicts on a device over years of use.
  - bayindirh 4y ago
    No, they make engineering mistakes while trying new things. We call companies stagnant when they don’t try, and we forgive them for trying if they are not Apple. But everyone loves to hate Apple. I’m currently using a 2014 MacBook Pro and a 2020 M1 MacBook Air. I have also seen and supported a lot of intermediate machines at work. We don’t service them unless somebody spills something liquid on their keyboards. So, while I owned a few of these things, I have seen and supported way more machines, and my judgement stands based on this experience.
    - cantSpellSober 4y ago
      So we've walked it back from "not sacrificing longevity over flashy technologies" to "mistakes while trying new things". Longevity is a mistake? New things aren't flashy technologies? > "we forgive them for trying if they are not Apple" Believe it or not, every so often Google hardware get criticized! MotionSense was...a mistake made while trying new things.
      - bayindirh 4y ago
        > So we've walked it back from... No. Let's not move the goalposts. Those are two different things. One is not incorporating not mature technologies into the product, the other is trying to push a known technology further. They tried and failed for 4 years, and gave up. If OLED was already a mature technology for large HiDPI panels and TVs, people wouldn't have been doing panel endurance tests, and TV manufacturers wouldn't hide panel-life sucking balance and recalibration features into their products. I have used a couple of Macs with butterfly switch keyboards. The problem was not the switch idea itself, but how the key depth has been reduced to make it thinner. They have gone beyond the comfortable depth for speed typing and made a mistake. Also, the minuscule tolerances made it susceptible to jamming due to dirt I didn't like the keyboards with butterfly switches, to be honest. The depth and weight in 2020 MacBook Air (M1) is much, much better. Yes. We criticize every company, but I think everything should be balanced. I'm not a fanboy of any company. There are ones which I enjoy using, and ones I don't prefer to use. The gist is, I try to objectively reflect my opinion on my comments, and I get replies in the tone of "my experience does not match to yours, so you're most probably lying", I'm genuinely disappointed. Because I never think the other party is not telling the truth. I'm just pointing out and saying "I'm in that state, so it's possible". But I never discount others' state and/or experience.
        cantSpellSober 4y ago
        > "we forgive them for trying if they are not Apple" > "We criticize every company" Oh, we walked that one back too

bayindirh 4y ago

Well, when they screw up design, they do it in a spectacular fashion, yes. Considering I buy a new MacBook every decade and they just endure the torture I put them through (I don’t abuse them though), I can say that they are pretty well built machines. Same is true for my 7 year iPhone cycle. I pay similar price to top tier laptops of other big brands, and get what I pay for. Use it for a decade, move the machine to spare and get a new one. When one does this with a thinkpad, we applaud them. When someone does it with a MacBook, we don’t believe them. Funny.

cantSpellSober 4y ago
> "when they screw up design, they do it in a spectacular fashion" So they do sacrifice for flashiness? > "I buy a new MacBook every decade" Oh, a lot has happened in the last decade. This is an anecdote about 1 or 2 machines you've owned.
- klodolph 4y ago
  “Torture” here is the wear and tear that a user inflicts on a device over years of use.
- bayindirh 4y ago
  No, they make engineering mistakes while trying new things. We call companies stagnant when they don’t try, and we forgive them for trying if they are not Apple. But everyone loves to hate Apple. I’m currently using a 2014 MacBook Pro and a 2020 M1 MacBook Air. I have also seen and supported a lot of intermediate machines at work. We don’t service them unless somebody spills something liquid on their keyboards. So, while I owned a few of these things, I have seen and supported way more machines, and my judgement stands based on this experience.
  - cantSpellSober 4y ago
    So we've walked it back from "not sacrificing longevity over flashy technologies" to "mistakes while trying new things". Longevity is a mistake? New things aren't flashy technologies? > "we forgive them for trying if they are not Apple" Believe it or not, every so often Google hardware get criticized! MotionSense was...a mistake made while trying new things.
    - bayindirh 4y ago
      > So we've walked it back from... No. Let's not move the goalposts. Those are two different things. One is not incorporating not mature technologies into the product, the other is trying to push a known technology further. They tried and failed for 4 years, and gave up. If OLED was already a mature technology for large HiDPI panels and TVs, people wouldn't have been doing panel endurance tests, and TV manufacturers wouldn't hide panel-life sucking balance and recalibration features into their products. I have used a couple of Macs with butterfly switch keyboards. The problem was not the switch idea itself, but how the key depth has been reduced to make it thinner. They have gone beyond the comfortable depth for speed typing and made a mistake. Also, the minuscule tolerances made it susceptible to jamming due to dirt I didn't like the keyboards with butterfly switches, to be honest. The depth and weight in 2020 MacBook Air (M1) is much, much better. Yes. We criticize every company, but I think everything should be balanced. I'm not a fanboy of any company. There are ones which I enjoy using, and ones I don't prefer to use. The gist is, I try to objectively reflect my opinion on my comments, and I get replies in the tone of "my experience does not match to yours, so you're most probably lying", I'm genuinely disappointed. Because I never think the other party is not telling the truth. I'm just pointing out and saying "I'm in that state, so it's possible". But I never discount others' state and/or experience.
      - cantSpellSober 4y ago
        > "we forgive them for trying if they are not Apple" > "We criticize every company" Oh, we walked that one back too