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No, it isn't. That's not what he was charged for, it's just one piece of evidence in the case: > “From Mr. Al-Azhari’s attempt to acquire firearms through unla

No, it isn't. That's not what he was charged for, it's just one piece of evidence in the case: > “From Mr. Al-Azhari’s attempt to acquire firearms through unlawful channels to his desire to provide material support to a designated foreign terrorist organization, it was clear Mr. Al-Azhari’s intention was to carry out an act of violence,” > According to the complaint, Al-Azhari was an ISIS supporter who planned and attempted to carry out an attack on behalf of that terrorist organization. Al-Azhari, who has a criminal history that includes prior terrorism charges in Saudi Arabia, attempted to purchase multiple firearms over the course of the investigation, before acquiring a Glock pistol and a silencer. He also expressed admiration for Pulse nightclub shooter Omar Mateen and spoke of his desire to carry out a similar mass casualty shooting. Additionally, Al-Azhari researched and scouted potential targets in the Tampa area, including Honeymoon Island. He also rehearsed portions of an attack and the statements that he would make during or in connection with such an attack.

SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
I’m interested what the case law is for arresting someone for intent to perform a heinous act. I’ve heard a lot from stalking victims and the like that often times police will refuse to do anything until the stalker has assaulted or murdered the victim in question, despite clear indications the stalker is actively planning to do harm.
- chopin 4y ago
  Wait until the victim is someone powerful.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- maxlybbert 4y ago
  There are plenty of laws about, say, attempted murder. Also, it’s possible for somebody to be convicted of shoplifting even if they’re nabbed before they leave the store if it’s clear that they were in the process of stealing items ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempt ). And when there isn’t a specific law, there is a general “conspiracy to commit” law ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_conspiracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_conspiracy ), which is what I’m sure is involved in this case. “Conspiracy” makes it sound funny, but the basic idea is that when multiple people (and “multiple” means “at least two”) have conversations about committing a specific crime and one takes concrete steps toward committing that crime, then all people involved can be punished for conspiracy. Of course, the ones who were undercover agents don’t get punished. And the fact that the plan wouldn’t work doesn’t matter. If the FBI sells fake explosives to somebody and that person plants them outside a building and tries to set them off, the fact that they were fake doesn’t help them beat the rap. The issue with stalking is that there isn’t a law against being in the same area as somebody else (unless there’s a restraining order). So, unfortunately, the police can’t make an arrest until a law is broken or the potential stalker at least tries to break the law.
  - SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
    I guess my confusion here is why stalkers aren’t arrested for intent to commit assault or murder in a similar way, I mean, this guy intended to help terrorists but he was largely doing this through otherwise legal channels like purchasing weaponry? What if a stalker buys a weapon, repeatedly tells a victim of planned murder plots, etc?
    - donkeyd 4y ago
      > What if a stalker buys a weapon, repeatedly tells a victim of planned murder plots, etc? They're probably still committing a crime. The thing with terrorism vs stalking though, is the budgets that are being spent on preventing them. It's also the level of Law Enforcement that does the investigation. Local PD is much less capable and has much less man power than the FBI. Also, in case of 'tells a victim of planned murder plots' this often happens in person with no record existing. This happens about as often as fake victims saying someone is threatening them. So it's hard to judge whether any report of death threats from a stalker is real. I've personally worked on stalking cases and until you've got actual irrefutable evidence of a stalker having made threats, it's always a gamble. Even letters and messages are being faked by pretend victims. Overreaction by local PD, without evidence, is how people get shot when they get swatted.
- advisedwang 4y ago
  Staking and terrorism are not the same. The FBI gets a boost to their career if they get a terrorism conviction, but there's no such incentive for more normal crime.
- Synaesthesia 4y ago
  The FBI has actually set up terror plots and then recruited people to carry them out only to arrest them. It's outrageous IMO. https://theintercept.com/2015/03/16/howthefbicreatedaterrorist/ https://theintercept.com/2015/03/16/howthefbicreatedaterrori...
- jstarfish 4y ago
  > clear indications the stalker is actively planning to do harm. You might be interested in the "cannibal cop" case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Valle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Valle Where, exactly, is the line crossed between "this guy is talking shit" and "this guy is actively planning to do harm?" (I don't know where I even stand on that case. The ramifications of every alternate outcome is equally unsettling.)
Miner49er 4y ago
You didn't say what he was charged with? He was charged with attempting to materially support a designated terrorist organization.

SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago

I’m interested what the case law is for arresting someone for intent to perform a heinous act. I’ve heard a lot from stalking victims and the like that often times police will refuse to do anything until the stalker has assaulted or murdered the victim in question, despite clear indications the stalker is actively planning to do harm.

chopin 4y ago
Wait until the victim is someone powerful.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
maxlybbert 4y ago
There are plenty of laws about, say, attempted murder. Also, it’s possible for somebody to be convicted of shoplifting even if they’re nabbed before they leave the store if it’s clear that they were in the process of stealing items ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempt ). And when there isn’t a specific law, there is a general “conspiracy to commit” law ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_conspiracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_conspiracy ), which is what I’m sure is involved in this case. “Conspiracy” makes it sound funny, but the basic idea is that when multiple people (and “multiple” means “at least two”) have conversations about committing a specific crime and one takes concrete steps toward committing that crime, then all people involved can be punished for conspiracy. Of course, the ones who were undercover agents don’t get punished. And the fact that the plan wouldn’t work doesn’t matter. If the FBI sells fake explosives to somebody and that person plants them outside a building and tries to set them off, the fact that they were fake doesn’t help them beat the rap. The issue with stalking is that there isn’t a law against being in the same area as somebody else (unless there’s a restraining order). So, unfortunately, the police can’t make an arrest until a law is broken or the potential stalker at least tries to break the law.
- SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
  I guess my confusion here is why stalkers aren’t arrested for intent to commit assault or murder in a similar way, I mean, this guy intended to help terrorists but he was largely doing this through otherwise legal channels like purchasing weaponry? What if a stalker buys a weapon, repeatedly tells a victim of planned murder plots, etc?
  - donkeyd 4y ago
    > What if a stalker buys a weapon, repeatedly tells a victim of planned murder plots, etc? They're probably still committing a crime. The thing with terrorism vs stalking though, is the budgets that are being spent on preventing them. It's also the level of Law Enforcement that does the investigation. Local PD is much less capable and has much less man power than the FBI. Also, in case of 'tells a victim of planned murder plots' this often happens in person with no record existing. This happens about as often as fake victims saying someone is threatening them. So it's hard to judge whether any report of death threats from a stalker is real. I've personally worked on stalking cases and until you've got actual irrefutable evidence of a stalker having made threats, it's always a gamble. Even letters and messages are being faked by pretend victims. Overreaction by local PD, without evidence, is how people get shot when they get swatted.
advisedwang 4y ago
Staking and terrorism are not the same. The FBI gets a boost to their career if they get a terrorism conviction, but there's no such incentive for more normal crime.
Synaesthesia 4y ago
The FBI has actually set up terror plots and then recruited people to carry them out only to arrest them. It's outrageous IMO. https://theintercept.com/2015/03/16/howthefbicreatedaterrorist/ https://theintercept.com/2015/03/16/howthefbicreatedaterrori...
jstarfish 4y ago
> clear indications the stalker is actively planning to do harm. You might be interested in the "cannibal cop" case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Valle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Valle Where, exactly, is the line crossed between "this guy is talking shit" and "this guy is actively planning to do harm?" (I don't know where I even stand on that case. The ramifications of every alternate outcome is equally unsettling.)

Miner49er 4y ago

You didn't say what he was charged with? He was charged with attempting to materially support a designated terrorist organization.