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> That's pointless, let's just go to the heart of the issue here. You, for some reason, are special, and smarter than all of us idiots that listened to our doct

> That's pointless, let's just go to the heart of the issue here. You, for some reason, are special, and smarter than all of us idiots that listened to our doctor when they said "get the covid vaccine." Thank you for providing a near perfect example of ad hominem. You avoid answering the straightforward question that is in no way "pointless" and instead attack me as a person. I'll take that as a telling win, as will anyone else reading this. > So, when I answer your question as to why we don't get the Yellow Fever vaccine, "because doctors don't recommend it, but doctors do recommend getting the COVID vaccine," tell us why you are right, and why they are wrong to say we should get the COVID vaccine. Thank you for providing a near perfect example of the appeal to authority fallacy. Firstly, not all doctors nor medical professionals, epidemiologists etc do recommend getting the vaccine for all individuals. > tell us why you are right Secondly, I have. > You don't actually know for sure whether or not you're susceptible to a bad COVID infection, unless, again, you know something the rest of the world doesn't, which, you don't. So, the statistics indicate that you, like most people, should just get a COVID vaccine. This is faulty reasoning. The fact is that statistically I am unlikely to be the kind of person with a comorbidity, apparent or not, known or not. Hence, the risk as can be assessed is small. Unknowns unknowns, to quote Donald Rumsfeld for a moment, are not a useful part of a risk assessment. I guess we'll find you hiding in your home made nuclear bunker waiting for the alien invasion? No, didn't think so. > If the term "social responsibility" makes you hear the soviet national anthem in your head, I'm very curious how you feel about littering, playing loud music in public, and opting to hold in a pee until you get to a public bathroom. None of those examples involve a medical procedure, an invasive one at that. A better example would be the forced abortions and impregnations that the three best known types of nasty socialists, the Soviets, the Maoists and the Nazis, imposed on some people. They would call that "social responsibility" too. > And if you think everyone that uses words like "lol" is a teenager, I'm really curious how you are at parties lmao People who would say "lol" at a party are people I'd like to avoid so it's not a concern of mine. People who are unable to handle their cognitive dissonance in the face of information that counters their ill informed, ill thought out notions, who let emotion go to their head and respond irrationally, they certainly do resemble teenagers in many ways.

komali2 4y ago
> Thank you for providing a near perfect example of the appeal to authority fallacy. Appeal to authority is only a rhetorically valid challenge if the authority is wrong. It's not. And there's not one single authority I'm appealing to here: it's all the people on earth most qualified to say whether or not people should get vaccinations. If "appeal to authority" means "you can't ever ask qualified people what to do in a situation they're qualified to discuss, that's appeal to authority!" then I really don't know how you can have any sort of rational basis for existence at all. You can't trust your doctor, you can't trust your car mechanic, you can't trust a camera review website, you can't trust a chef to make you good food, I mean, what on earth kind of intellectual basis for existence is that? Absurdity. > Firstly, not all doctors nor medical professionals, epidemiologists etc do recommend getting the vaccine for all individuals. Almost all do for almost all people. I never tried to argue that everyone should get a covid vaccine, just that those who doctors recommend should, should. Very simple. The cases where someone shouldn't are rare and well documented. Your argument that the young and healthy shouldn't doesn't apply here. It's moot to bring it up at all, and it's bad rhetoric. > This is faulty reasoning. The fact is that statistically I am unlikely to be the kind of person with a comorbidity, apparent or not, known or not. Hence, the risk as can be assessed is small. Unknowns unknowns, to quote Donald Rumsfeld for a moment, are not a useful part of a risk assessment. I guess we'll find you hiding in your home made nuclear bunker waiting for the alien invasion? No, didn't think so. The chance of you having a negative side effect from a covid vaccine that's worse than a bad covid infection, is lower than the chance of you having a really bad covid infection. So, why don't you get the vaccine? Why do you decide that you're more worried about a side effect from a covid vaccine, than you are about a bad covid infection? The statistics don't hold for your reasoning, it's you engaging in faulty reasoning. This on top of the social benefit upsides of slowing the spread of COVID, reducing hospitalization, etc. > A better example would be the forced abortions and impregnations that the three best known types of nasty socialists, the Soviets, the Maoists and the Nazis, As far as I know nobody's forcing anybody to get covid vaccinations. I'm arguing that you should do so, not be forced to. My argument is more medically and ethically sound, that's all. So if you're a rational person with good ethics, you should get vaccinated. That should be enough, there's no reason to involve State violence to enforce it. Also, since when are the nazis socialists lmao. Wait... because the German translates to "national socialism?" I've never actually encountered someone that took the nazis at such face value lol. Do you also believe the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea is a democratic republic? In any point it doesn't really matter to me what the nazis called social responsibility, their idea of society is ethically horrifying, so we need not consider their opinions on the concept of social responsibility. > People who would say "lol" at a party are people I'd like to avoid so it's not a concern of mine. That's a self report for being boring at parties fam > People who are unable to handle their cognitive dissonance in the face of information that counters their ill informed, ill thought out notions, who let emotion go to their head and respond irrationally, they certainly do resemble teenagers in many ways. Yet you're the one that believes, in the face of overwhelming evidence, that they shouldn't get a covid vaccine. My earlier accusation that you must be smarter isn't an ad hominem - your claim is extraordinary and thus requires extraordinary evidence, and also requires a better explanation. Heliocentric theory isn't just bad because the evidence doesn't back it, it also requires a whole stack of bad explanations to justify it, inventing magic beings to carry around globes of light to explain what we observe in the sky. Your idea, that almost all doctors on earth are telling almost all people on earth to get a COVID vaccine are either wrong or lying, requires an extraordinary explanation. Either a massive failure in the scientific process in thousands of research centers across the globe - including in countries that are actively engaged in propaganda wars with eachother and normally very motivated to counter eachother!. Or, conspiracy, which, you know, if you want to be on the side of the flat earthers, please by all means, but at least be aware of the hilarious irony of doing so and then turning around and accusing those of us that got vaccinated as engaging in "cognitive dissonance." You haven't provided a good argument to not get vaccinated. You dropped a lot of links around, but none of them counter the core argument: most people, as recommended by their doctors, should get a COVID vaccine. > as will anyone else reading this. lol, nobody is reading this, days old and deeply buried thread. Just me and you here. Nobo

komali2 4y ago

> Thank you for providing a near perfect example of the appeal to authority fallacy. Appeal to authority is only a rhetorically valid challenge if the authority is wrong. It's not. And there's not one single authority I'm appealing to here: it's all the people on earth most qualified to say whether or not people should get vaccinations. If "appeal to authority" means "you can't ever ask qualified people what to do in a situation they're qualified to discuss, that's appeal to authority!" then I really don't know how you can have any sort of rational basis for existence at all. You can't trust your doctor, you can't trust your car mechanic, you can't trust a camera review website, you can't trust a chef to make you good food, I mean, what on earth kind of intellectual basis for existence is that? Absurdity. > Firstly, not all doctors nor medical professionals, epidemiologists etc do recommend getting the vaccine for all individuals. Almost all do for almost all people. I never tried to argue that everyone should get a covid vaccine, just that those who doctors recommend should, should. Very simple. The cases where someone shouldn't are rare and well documented. Your argument that the young and healthy shouldn't doesn't apply here. It's moot to bring it up at all, and it's bad rhetoric. > This is faulty reasoning. The fact is that statistically I am unlikely to be the kind of person with a comorbidity, apparent or not, known or not. Hence, the risk as can be assessed is small. Unknowns unknowns, to quote Donald Rumsfeld for a moment, are not a useful part of a risk assessment. I guess we'll find you hiding in your home made nuclear bunker waiting for the alien invasion? No, didn't think so. The chance of you having a negative side effect from a covid vaccine that's worse than a bad covid infection, is lower than the chance of you having a really bad covid infection. So, why don't you get the vaccine? Why do you decide that you're more worried about a side effect from a covid vaccine, than you are about a bad covid infection? The statistics don't hold for your reasoning, it's you engaging in faulty reasoning. This on top of the social benefit upsides of slowing the spread of COVID, reducing hospitalization, etc. > A better example would be the forced abortions and impregnations that the three best known types of nasty socialists, the Soviets, the Maoists and the Nazis, As far as I know nobody's forcing anybody to get covid vaccinations. I'm arguing that you should do so, not be forced to. My argument is more medically and ethically sound, that's all. So if you're a rational person with good ethics, you should get vaccinated. That should be enough, there's no reason to involve State violence to enforce it. Also, since when are the nazis socialists lmao. Wait... because the German translates to "national socialism?" I've never actually encountered someone that took the nazis at such face value lol. Do you also believe the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea is a democratic republic? In any point it doesn't really matter to me what the nazis called social responsibility, their idea of society is ethically horrifying, so we need not consider their opinions on the concept of social responsibility. > People who would say "lol" at a party are people I'd like to avoid so it's not a concern of mine. That's a self report for being boring at parties fam > People who are unable to handle their cognitive dissonance in the face of information that counters their ill informed, ill thought out notions, who let emotion go to their head and respond irrationally, they certainly do resemble teenagers in many ways. Yet you're the one that believes, in the face of overwhelming evidence, that they shouldn't get a covid vaccine. My earlier accusation that you must be smarter isn't an ad hominem - your claim is extraordinary and thus requires extraordinary evidence, and also requires a better explanation. Heliocentric theory isn't just bad because the evidence doesn't back it, it also requires a whole stack of bad explanations to justify it, inventing magic beings to carry around globes of light to explain what we observe in the sky. Your idea, that almost all doctors on earth are telling almost all people on earth to get a COVID vaccine are either wrong or lying, requires an extraordinary explanation. Either a massive failure in the scientific process in thousands of research centers across the globe - including in countries that are actively engaged in propaganda wars with eachother and normally very motivated to counter eachother!. Or, conspiracy, which, you know, if you want to be on the side of the flat earthers, please by all means, but at least be aware of the hilarious irony of doing so and then turning around and accusing those of us that got vaccinated as engaging in "cognitive dissonance." You haven't provided a good argument to not get vaccinated. You dropped a lot of links around, but none of them counter the core argument: most people, as recommended by their doctors, should get a COVID vaccine. > as will anyone else reading this. lol, nobody is reading this, days old and deeply buried thread. Just me and you here. Nobo