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> Bluntly, every person I know who's expressed these kinds of sentiments is guilty of the same mistake: externalizing their happiness. I don't believe this tak

> Bluntly, every person I know who's expressed these kinds of sentiments is guilty of the same mistake: externalizing their happiness. I don't believe this take is fair or correct. FANG-like jobs are designed to depersonalize workers, compell them to work extremely long hours, force them to be constantly on and available, and basically live for the company, only to be pushed out of the company by design and get fired as disposable canon fodder at the slightest bump on the calendar. The pay might be good, but it resembles a deal with the devil. Have you ever wondered why the average tenure at some top tech companies is measured in months, and reaching a milestone like 4 or 5 years is lauded as a major achievement? I seriously doubt that so many people is just "externalizing their happiness". Sometimes it's really the job that kills you inside and does so by design, don't you think?

jefftk 4y ago
> FANG-like jobs are designed to depersonalize workers, compell them to work extremely long hours, force them to be constantly on and available, and basically live for the company, only to be pushed out of the company by design and get fired as disposable canon fodder at the slightest bump on the calendar. That mostly doesn't match my experience in two ~5y stints at a FANG: * Depersonalize: maybe; not sure what you mean by it here. * Extremely long hours: not at all. Most people worked ~45hr/wk counting ~1hr/d of lunch. I averaged a bit less than that. * Force them to be constantly on and available: no. One of my roles had an explicit oncall rotation where you were primary for about one week a quarter and secondary for another week. The other role had no oncall. When you were off no one expected you to be in contact, and several team members had configured their phones so that their work profile was completely deactivated outside of work hours. At times when I was excited enough about what I was doing that I wanted to work extra my manager pushed back hard, getting me to think about the impact on team culture. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34329670 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34329670 * Be pushed out of the company by design and get fired as disposable canon fodder at the slightest bump on the calendar: I worked closely with ~50 people and didn't see anyone fired. The people who got somewhat close to getting fired were ones who were having trouble getting things done, but in a sustained low output sort of way that was clear to everyone they worked with and not a "slight calendar bump" sort of way.
- ablatt89 4y ago
  Agreed here, there's so much scope and specialization in a large company, it takes time to make impact that often goes beyond 1-2 years. I recall in my last FAANG at Apple, the opportunities for high impact projects are often left up for the individuals to find. You're hired to do X, but nothing stops you from creating some really highly useful internal library, side projects, pitching ideas to management (they will often get rejected by sometimes accepted), etc... And honestly, I was averaging maybe 5 hours of real work a week in some stretches. Ofcourse crunch time happens, and it is team dependent, but one has to take control of their experiences in any company or situation instead of relying on others to make their expectations happen.
birken 4y ago
I don't know if all FAANG companies are the same, but your description of the job does not match my FAANG experience at all. It was dehumanizing in its own way because you are such a small cog in a large machine, but nobody worked long hours, nobody was forced to be available all the time, nobody really needed to sacrifice for the company (because everybody was such a small cog) and even the lowest performers I worked with could basically not do anything to get fired. Many people there were also "lifers" because the job was so easy. Most people left due to having ambitions for more impact, not due to being burnt out.

jefftk 4y ago

> FANG-like jobs are designed to depersonalize workers, compell them to work extremely long hours, force them to be constantly on and available, and basically live for the company, only to be pushed out of the company by design and get fired as disposable canon fodder at the slightest bump on the calendar. That mostly doesn't match my experience in two ~5y stints at a FANG: * Depersonalize: maybe; not sure what you mean by it here. * Extremely long hours: not at all. Most people worked ~45hr/wk counting ~1hr/d of lunch. I averaged a bit less than that. * Force them to be constantly on and available: no. One of my roles had an explicit oncall rotation where you were primary for about one week a quarter and secondary for another week. The other role had no oncall. When you were off no one expected you to be in contact, and several team members had configured their phones so that their work profile was completely deactivated outside of work hours. At times when I was excited enough about what I was doing that I wanted to work extra my manager pushed back hard, getting me to think about the impact on team culture. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34329670 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34329670 * Be pushed out of the company by design and get fired as disposable canon fodder at the slightest bump on the calendar: I worked closely with ~50 people and didn't see anyone fired. The people who got somewhat close to getting fired were ones who were having trouble getting things done, but in a sustained low output sort of way that was clear to everyone they worked with and not a "slight calendar bump" sort of way.

ablatt89 4y ago
Agreed here, there's so much scope and specialization in a large company, it takes time to make impact that often goes beyond 1-2 years. I recall in my last FAANG at Apple, the opportunities for high impact projects are often left up for the individuals to find. You're hired to do X, but nothing stops you from creating some really highly useful internal library, side projects, pitching ideas to management (they will often get rejected by sometimes accepted), etc... And honestly, I was averaging maybe 5 hours of real work a week in some stretches. Ofcourse crunch time happens, and it is team dependent, but one has to take control of their experiences in any company or situation instead of relying on others to make their expectations happen.

birken 4y ago

I don't know if all FAANG companies are the same, but your description of the job does not match my FAANG experience at all. It was dehumanizing in its own way because you are such a small cog in a large machine, but nobody worked long hours, nobody was forced to be available all the time, nobody really needed to sacrifice for the company (because everybody was such a small cog) and even the lowest performers I worked with could basically not do anything to get fired. Many people there were also "lifers" because the job was so easy. Most people left due to having ambitions for more impact, not due to being burnt out.