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Bluntly, every person I know who's expressed these kinds of sentiments is guilty of the same mistake: externalizing their happiness. They inevitably move, onl

Bluntly, every person I know who's expressed these kinds of sentiments is guilty of the same mistake: externalizing their happiness. They inevitably move, only to find the new place they're in sucks, just in different ways. Or they find another job, but just discover more things they hate there. Or they find a new partner, only to discover a new set of annoyances. The same psychology leads people to think they'll be happy if they finally get that new car, or that new house, or that new TV. All of it comes from the same place: assuming that happiness is something you can find by simply changing your circumstances. Now, don't get me wrong, there are absolutely good reasons to want to change those circumstances! But it's critical to understand that oftentimes there is no one change of circumstances, one decision, one thing that will result in happiness. I know it's a cliche, but I think I'm old enough now to confidently say that, yes: Happiness really does start from within.

lapcat 4y ago
> I think I'm old enough now to confidently say that, yes: Happiness really does start from within. What does age have to do with it? You're one person. It's anecdotal data. I'm old enough now (5 years later) to confidently say that, yes: Quitting my last job really did make me happier.
- BaseballPhysics 4y ago
  > What does age have to do with it? You're one person. It's anecdotal data. Actually an entire field of psychology is based on the idea: cognitive behavioral therapy. But you seem like you need to pick a fight, and I'm honestly not in the mood, so carry on.
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  - lapcat 4y ago
    > you need to pick a fight, and I'm honestly not in the mood "Bluntly, every person I know who's expressed these kinds of sentiments is guilty of the same mistake"
- sudoit 4y ago
  Same in my case. I quit my first software job because it made me feel so meaningless and depressed. I was immediately happier. I quit my second job because they overworked me. Same result. I have less money now, but I don’t care. I’m much happier being where I am now. People underestimate just how much work life affects your entire life.
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  - gymbeaux 4y ago
    You spend most of your life at work (at least in the US). 24 hours in a day. 8 of them spent working. 1 hour for lunch. ~2 hours getting ready for work/sleep each day. 8 hours for sleep... that leaves you with ~5 hours per day, but you also have to do chores around the house, maybe pickup/dropoff kiddos, commute (if you don't work from home), and cook dinner and clean up afterwards. If you have 2 hours a day to yourself to pursue your interests/dreams, you are "fucked".
    - codeOnMaster 4y ago
      What do you mean by “fucked”? If you don’t enjoy your job, you’re fucked? Seems like you’re saying you’re fucked unless you work less hours.
      - gymbeaux 4y ago
        Yeah, you're fucked unless you work fewer hours. By "fucked" I mean "doomed to a relatively-miserable existence". I don't care if you have a FETISH for writing code, you do not want to do it ~40 hours/week. We need a four-day (32-hour) workweek. Give me a 20% pay cut, I don't care. Most of us here make well over $100k/year. What we need is TIME.
      - dinosaurdynasty 4y ago
        And in the US it is rare to be able to get health insurance without working full time. Good luck with that.
- trynewideas 4y ago
  You can both be right, is the thing.
- dylan604 4y ago
  It's one of those things like "time heals all wounds". Nobody likes to hear it when the wound is fresh, but it's absolutely true. When you're younger, FOMO is much stronger. As you get older, FOMO starts to get replaced with "who gives a...". With that in mind, age might matter
  - saurik 4y ago
    How old do I have to become for "time heals all wounds" to work? I am 41 now, which is seemingly old for this website, but figure it might take another decade or two for that one to make sense? (How old are you?) In my so-far-limited experience, it isn't time that heals wounds, but active shifts in perspective (which of course require some time to happen but it isn't like time is doing it: I have many "wounds" that hurt just as much now as they did 20 years ago, because I have not been able to obtain any kind of closure and the thing that happened didn't retroactively change or anything... at best I just try to ignore it, but that was my same strategy right after stuff happened ;P).
  - rexpop 4y ago
    Some wounds, emotional as well as physical, far from healing actually leave chronic and debilitating scars. The aphorism is far from "absolutely true."
  - themitigating 4y ago
    Just to note, as middle aged person, the "who gives a .." might not be from a deeper wisdom due to age but cynicism.
    - dylan604 4y ago
      maybe true. but for me personally, i just realized that the constant comparison of what i have vs what other people have is just dumb. as long as what i have makes me happy and the pursuit of those things isn't causing me to make bad decisions about other things, then i'm okay with it. it might be why i'm so sickened by all the ad tech as ultimately it's keying in on people's FOMO. it might sound embarrassing to admit, but it was actually watching Fight Club and the scene animating the Ikea catalog and the accompanying monologue (and overall theme of the movie/book) really got me thinking about it. i was mid-20s when that came out, and it definitely planted a seed. people do remind me of that when i mention making soap!
- haswell 4y ago
  Age can have a lot to do with it, depending on your path through life. The adage is generally that wisdom comes with age, and there are some things in life that are difficult to internalize until you’ve gone though the experience. To me, it’s just another way of saying “the more life experience I gain…”.
  - simplotek 4y ago
    > To me, it’s just another of saying “the more life experience I gain…”. I believe that if you never were in a position where your job was a soul-crushig source of misery and despair, you've been lucky to live a sheltered life. Most people don't have the privilege of picking and choosing outstanding jobs with decent work/life balance, nice colleagues, reasonable deadlines and considerate stakeholders. Most people have rent/mortgage to pay, kids to feed, and unfavourable odds of improving their life with low risk and impact on your life. I'm sure they gained a lot of life experience too.
    - haswell 4y ago
      Yes, everyone experiences life differently, and the sum total of those experiences covers a wide spectrum. Personally, I’ve been on both sides of this conversation. Grew up dirt poor, started working as a teen to help my family make ends meet, and dreamed of a “better” life where the work I did mattered to me and the money I made would be sufficient to not constantly wonder where the next meal comes from. A constant source of that soul crushing misery and despair. Later in life, I was fortunate enough to experience the lifestyle afforded by a Silicon Valley salary after working my ass off to get there, an “arrival” of sorts. Younger me had no ability to comprehend how/why this high paying job would make me more deeply unhappy than I’d ever been in my life. Life experience is contextual and relative, but important nonetheless.
    - xvilka 4y ago
      > Most people have rent/mortgage to pay, kids to feed, and unfavourable odds of improving their life with low risk and impact on your life. I would go further - majority of people on this planet live painful and miserable life.
- justatdotin 4y ago
  I think the thing about aging is that you have less energy, so you're less likely to make energetic mistakes, and more likely to take some calm moments to think things thru. also, if you have moderate ambitions and desires, with time you may reach a point where you've met them. Then you are less focused on those for happiness. so I do think age has something to do with it
- anonreeeeplor 4y ago
  Yes. I quit and then asked: “what if I stayed and do I regret leaving” on my last 4 companies. Universally the answer is no I don’t regret it. One imploded and laid off like 60% of people after turning into a nasty political hell hole. Another laid off massively and is now world renowned as a failed story. Another gave me zero opportunities and everyone was yelling at each other all the time. Believe me, I tried to enter my internal universe and be happy not learning and not growing. Being bored to death and underutilized if you feel highly talented and creative is a form of death. Op needs to answer: What has he done in his life? Built a unicorn and IPOd it? Jet skiing with super models? Inventing cures for diseases? Or did he sort of sit in a cubicle typing and reading Reddit for the last five years. A lot of those on here, I don’t listen to their input on what successs is. I will never be happy until I am climbing to the highest potential I can get to. No one is going to talk me into being otherwise.
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  - bumby 4y ago
    “No one is going to talk me into…” is shorthand for “I’m not open to any other ideas that don’t align with my preconceived notions.” It’s not terribly productive on a site whose guidelines try to foster an open and curious conversation.
    - lapcat 4y ago
      It's supposed to be about intellectual curiosity. Not questioning other people's life choices and giving unsolicited advice.
      - bumby 4y ago
        It's a little odd to me that you would seem to expect an article and discussion on something subject like "happiness" not to have personal accounts of their subjective experience.
- bumby 4y ago
  >What does age have to do with it? I don’t want to speak for the OP, but I think they’re using age as a proxy for “I’ve seen this same pattern enough times to…”
  - lapcat 4y ago
    Enough times to... make a vast overgeneralization about human nature based on personally experienced anecdotal data. Also, there's no evidence that the OP is older than, say, me, which is why citing age is largely irrelevant.
    - bumby 4y ago
      If it wasn’t clear enough from my post, I’m implying you are reading too much into the literal meaning of the age part of the comment. As the HN guidelines say, we should be trying to take the most generous interpretation possible.
      - lapcat 4y ago
        > I’m implying you are reading too much into the literal meaning of the age part of the comment. I'm not. In fact my previous comment would still be valid if the line "What does age have to do with it?" were omitted. The important point is that the anecdotal observations do not apply universally.
        bumby 4y ago
        >The important point is that the anecdotal observations do not apply universally. We are probably reading their comment somewhat differently. Because of the way they couched their statement as rooted in their personal experience, I assumed their were implying it was anecdotal and obviously not a generalizable, objective truth.
        lapcat 4y ago
        > I assumed their were implying it was anecdotal and obviously not a generalizable, objective truth. "I think I'm old enough now to confidently say that, yes: Happiness really does start from within."
cpsns 4y ago
> assuming that happiness is something you can find by simply changing your circumstances. Thankfully I learned years ago this doesn’t work and got past this mindset. Changing circumstances has never significantly improved things for any length of time. > Happiness really does start from within. I’ve also never had any luck with this and am increasingly convinced some people aren’t destined to be happy.
- Swizec 4y ago
  > I’ve also never had any luck with this and am increasingly convinced some people aren’t destined to be happy. Roughly everyone. Happiness is an unattainable construct designed to sell you more stuff and experiences. It isn’t real. Contentment, though, now that’s achievable. But it doesn’t get talked about because it doesn’t monetize well. The Oatmeal has my favorite explanation/take on this: https://theoatmeal.com/comics/unhappy https://theoatmeal.com/comics/unhappy
throwaway98797 4y ago
ahhh, i’ve had jobs that made me hate life. i’ve had jobs that didn’t feel like work. not sure if you intended by you come off defeatist. if i was again at a job that was making me sad or angry i’d: 1. list things i hate 2. list things i don’t mind 3. work to do more of 2 and less of 1 if after a year it’s still unbearable look for a different job. talented people have more options than they realize.
shrimpx 4y ago
You can certainly improve your happiness incrementally. From little things like getting shoes that fit better to things like moving to a climate that fits you better. Reducing annoyances and distractions. Yeah in the limit you can't achieve capital-H Happiness with a change in physical circumstance but I don't think that's what's at stake here.
- BaseballPhysics 4y ago
  Absolutely agreed!
danielmarkbruce 4y ago
At least in my experience this is nonsense. The circumstances of my work make a large difference to my happiness. I know because I've been in a number of different circumstances and my happiness has varied greatly.
- themitigating 4y ago
  Happy or less annoyed? I find when I was truly happy I cared less about external influences. For example, if it's hot, a person is annyoing, someone almost hits me with a car, or it my manager wants me to do something boring. So maybe what some people think are the sources of their unhappiness is actually just making their unhappiness more obvious.
  - danielmarkbruce 4y ago
    I don't mean the minutiae.
- bumby 4y ago
  I’ve always liked the phrase “money can’t buy happiness but it can make you less miserable.” I think the main idea is that there are certain circumstances that can bias you into an unhappy state, but merely removing what makes you miserable isn’t enough to make you happy.
simplotek 4y ago
> Bluntly, every person I know who's expressed these kinds of sentiments is guilty of the same mistake: externalizing their happiness. I don't believe this take is fair or correct. FANG-like jobs are designed to depersonalize workers, compell them to work extremely long hours, force them to be constantly on and available, and basically live for the company, only to be pushed out of the company by design and get fired as disposable canon fodder at the slightest bump on the calendar. The pay might be good, but it resembles a deal with the devil. Have you ever wondered why the average tenure at some top tech companies is measured in months, and reaching a milestone like 4 or 5 years is lauded as a major achievement? I seriously doubt that so many people is just "externalizing their happiness". Sometimes it's really the job that kills you inside and does so by design, don't you think?
- jefftk 4y ago
  > FANG-like jobs are designed to depersonalize workers, compell them to work extremely long hours, force them to be constantly on and available, and basically live for the company, only to be pushed out of the company by design and get fired as disposable canon fodder at the slightest bump on the calendar. That mostly doesn't match my experience in two ~5y stints at a FANG: * Depersonalize: maybe; not sure what you mean by it here. * Extremely long hours: not at all. Most people worked ~45hr/wk counting ~1hr/d of lunch. I averaged a bit less than that. * Force them to be constantly on and available: no. One of my roles had an explicit oncall rotation where you were primary for about one week a quarter and secondary for another week. The other role had no oncall. When you were off no one expected you to be in contact, and several team members had configured their phones so that their work profile was completely deactivated outside of work hours. At times when I was excited enough about what I was doing that I wanted to work extra my manager pushed back hard, getting me to think about the impact on team culture. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34329670 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34329670 * Be pushed out of the company by design and get fired as disposable canon fodder at the slightest bump on the calendar: I worked closely with ~50 people and didn't see anyone fired. The people who got somewhat close to getting fired were ones who were having trouble getting things done, but in a sustained low output sort of way that was clear to everyone they worked with and not a "slight calendar bump" sort of way.
blacksqr 4y ago
> They inevitably move, only to find the new place they're in sucks, just in different ways. A recovering alcoholic friend of mine once told me this syndrome is well known in 12 step programs. They call it "doing a geographical."
- EMM_386 4y ago
  No matter where you go, there you are.
  - cpsns 4y ago
    I hate this quote/pop advice. For some people location really, truly does matter. There are irredeemable places, and places that just don’t work for an individual. They key is knowing when it’s a problem instead of just running somewhere random and hoping it’ll fix all your issues. Personally? I feel way better in sunny, dry climates. My mood improves a ton and I legitimately feel healthier. Right now I live in the exact opposite and I don’t like it.
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betocmn 4y ago
> Happiness really does start from within. 100% - and for some people to excel in connecting with themselves, they need a calmer environment - or just more simplicity. But his sentiment reminded me right away of the book "The Quest of the Simple Life" by William James Dawson.
- mancerayder 4y ago
  >> Happiness really does start from within. >100% - and for some people to excel in connecting with themselves, they need a calmer environment - or just more simplicity. Now let's go full-circle for a moment: sometimes the job, or circumstances, stand in the way of this ability to find inner peace, or sometimes just think. Even standing apart in a vacation for a few weeks gives you the ability to snap out of it. It's true in my experience that sometimes, the job needs to change. The attitude expressed in one of the top comments above around happiness being within and not connected to changed circumstances is narrow, I've had this debate with friends who are high-achieving types. They argue that one should adapt and make the best of it, and often it's you and not the job. They also drink a lot.
ridgeguy 4y ago
I agree, but there may be a single change of circumstances that will open a path to something new. For example, if OP can accumulate enough $ to leave their job with at least a reasonable level of financial security, they might find that in the absence of the job's mental and physical overhead, heretofore obscured options would appear.
allisdust 4y ago
To put it in another way, if we are trying to paint a canvas white, there is always a more whiter color that we haven't yet achieved. It will continue till we realise there is no perfect white or dark. Just shades of it.
taneq 4y ago
This is a great viewpoint to foster in unhappy employees who you want to stick around. Reminds me of “Who Moved My Cheese.”
doix 4y ago
I was stuck in a loop of: wake up -> gym -> work -> pub(Wednesday and Fridays, sometimes Monday) -> TV with SO -> gaming, pretty much every week day. On weekends I'd either game all day or go surfing. I'd go on a ski holiday once a year and two other one week holidays with my SO. That was my life for years. Then I changed _everything_. Quit job, broke up with my girlfriend, sold my flat and most of my possessions, different job, became a "digital nomad". Now I'm "happy". I found a job that doesn't have all the things I hate about working. I can do sports I enjoy much more frequently, I'm not stuck in a loop where everyday is the same. I guess I agree that _one_ thing most likely won't be the key to happiness. I think the key is figuring out what makes you happy(I think a lot of people don't know) and what makes you unhappy(this is usually easier to identify). Then doing more of the things that make you happy and less of the things that make you unhappy. I'm not sure if that's what "happiness starts from within" means, but that's what worked for me. Edit: I guess being happy also depends on the definition of the word. Depending on the definition, maybe I'm not happy.
krisroadruck 4y ago
As a counter-point, I spent about 5 years pretty miserable between 3 different jobs - my complaints where the same at each organization. The profit motive was being put above all else, including employee well being, an actually high-quality service, and in some cases baseline ethics. People were constantly pressured into working more than they should, both in the short term (too many hours per week) and in the long term - vacation time that was hard or impossible to actually take. Overpromising and understaffing/tooling led to constant crunches, corner cutting, rushed low-quality deliverables, and constant fear - either that a client would be lost and blame would be placed, or that a bad client that should go would be retained to the teams detriment. Often all of this was paved over by toxic positivity. You point out the problems and they say "Look on the bright side. You are being too negative. It'll all shake out". Just pure gaslighting bullshit. After the 3rd such place, and a complete inability to effect change - I threw in the towel and started my own agency 2 years ago. From the outset I made the purpose of the company to be quality of life, not profit. Fewer clients/hours per team member, more time to execute and put out work you are proud to hang your hat on. No assholes (teammates OR clients). For the entirety of the past 2 years, including the hard bits of actually getting it off the ground and getting those first few customers, the difference has been night and day. My stress levels are the lowest they've been in years. My relationship with my wife is better. I never dread Monday, and rarely pine for Friday. Sometimes it really is the environment, and sometimes that environment is pervasive in a particular industry.
- biinui 4y ago
  Sorry if this is inappropriate. Are you hiring native Android+iOS developer? :)
  - krisroadruck 4y ago
    Not inappropriate - but no not currently. We're a Marketing agency that also does custom WordPress dev. We're working towards diversifying a bit by also launching some internally owned monetized content sites or small software products (such as a useful paid plugin for WordPress) but that's about it at the moment.
- 4y ago
supportlocal4h 4y ago
These are very good points to ponder seriously. You can change your circumstances in another way. Reduce your expenses despite all the money that's coming in. Then find something important to you. It feels like it should be something altruistic. Funnel money to it. But also funnel your time and energy. Buy some property in Detroit and build a safe house there. Fly in once a month to be involved, actually forming concrete, or roofing, or whatever. Then be involved in forming the management team, and be the board chair or something. Or found an IT version of a farmer's market. Whatever that means. Design and build a cylindrical windmill that stinks, but can be installed on balconies to harvest $5 of energy per month. Then invite people who know what they're doing to teach you how to get that up to $20/month and cost only $50 to build. Refine it until you can distribute kits. Launch a wheelchair repair service. Coach a 4H club. I know recent events have made altruism look bad, but I'm not advocating... well, I guess maybe I am. I never really looked into it, so I don't know. But I know it feels kinda good to shovel a neighbor's driveway every so often.
- horns4lyfe 4y ago
  If you’re talking about FTX, their version of altruism was donating vast sums to political parties. I would call that more power-seeking than altruism, whatever the media calls it.
safety1st 4y ago
I'm going to go out on a limb and disagree with the idea that happiness comes from within. For two reasons: 1) it contradicts my lived experience and 2) it contradicts research. Let's start with money. I used to be poor and now I'm not anymore. I used to have all kinds of anxieties about money, surprise surprise, once I put my nose to the grind, earned more of it, and developed a healthy financial cushion, those anxieties disappeared and I became happier. My anecdote isn't the only data point, there's research out there which indicates that more money correlates with more happiness (though the effect has diminishing returns once you hit the upper middle class). There are at least three really big external factors I'm aware of which are correlated to happiness in a big way. 1. Money 2. A supportive network of family and peers 3. Health and fitness Every time we look we find that as people improve their circumstances in these areas, they report greater happiness and fulfillment in their lives. I'm not saying that striving for inner peace and all that is necessarily a waste of time. It has its benefits. But frankly I think if you want to be happy you can do a lot worse than busting your hump to sort out the three things I just mentioned. If you're broke, sick and alone, inner peace isn't really a priority. Working on those problems is.
- twelve40 4y ago
  I'm not op but pretty sure that he wrote that "from within" thing assuming all those things you talk about are already there. After all, we're discussing a blog post of a young bored top-earner from one of the most impressive cities in the world.
CipherThrowaway 4y ago
Hard to see how this meshes with published evidence about the role and importance of environmental and lifestyle factors in stress, well-being and burnout. If anything, getting older is strongly moving me away from your mindset. To the extent that well-being is intrinsic it seems to be more about the causal relationship to environmental factors. Some people are better at managing workload, setting boundaries, avoiding stressful situations and finding a "scene" that fits their values and abilities. I've seen these people do very well. There are plenty of people out there ready to tell you that happiness and well-being are all about attitude. But when I look at the people in my own life who have said this none of them have been particularly happy or seem to have figured things out for themselves. And it's no coincidence that some of the strongest advocates for "individual responsibility for happiness" are bad bosses and abusive spouses who have a vested interest in keeping people in bad environments. To me, stories like this one read more true to life: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34406760#34409368 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34406760#34409368.

lapcat 4y ago

> I think I'm old enough now to confidently say that, yes: Happiness really does start from within. What does age have to do with it? You're one person. It's anecdotal data. I'm old enough now (5 years later) to confidently say that, yes: Quitting my last job really did make me happier.

BaseballPhysics 4y ago
> What does age have to do with it? You're one person. It's anecdotal data. Actually an entire field of psychology is based on the idea: cognitive behavioral therapy. But you seem like you need to pick a fight, and I'm honestly not in the mood, so carry on.
- deleted 4y ago
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- lapcat 4y ago
  > you need to pick a fight, and I'm honestly not in the mood "Bluntly, every person I know who's expressed these kinds of sentiments is guilty of the same mistake"
sudoit 4y ago
Same in my case. I quit my first software job because it made me feel so meaningless and depressed. I was immediately happier. I quit my second job because they overworked me. Same result. I have less money now, but I don’t care. I’m much happier being where I am now. People underestimate just how much work life affects your entire life.
- deleted 4y ago
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- gymbeaux 4y ago
  You spend most of your life at work (at least in the US). 24 hours in a day. 8 of them spent working. 1 hour for lunch. ~2 hours getting ready for work/sleep each day. 8 hours for sleep... that leaves you with ~5 hours per day, but you also have to do chores around the house, maybe pickup/dropoff kiddos, commute (if you don't work from home), and cook dinner and clean up afterwards. If you have 2 hours a day to yourself to pursue your interests/dreams, you are "fucked".
  - codeOnMaster 4y ago
    What do you mean by “fucked”? If you don’t enjoy your job, you’re fucked? Seems like you’re saying you’re fucked unless you work less hours.
    - gymbeaux 4y ago
      Yeah, you're fucked unless you work fewer hours. By "fucked" I mean "doomed to a relatively-miserable existence". I don't care if you have a FETISH for writing code, you do not want to do it ~40 hours/week. We need a four-day (32-hour) workweek. Give me a 20% pay cut, I don't care. Most of us here make well over $100k/year. What we need is TIME.
    - dinosaurdynasty 4y ago
      And in the US it is rare to be able to get health insurance without working full time. Good luck with that.
trynewideas 4y ago
You can both be right, is the thing.
dylan604 4y ago
It's one of those things like "time heals all wounds". Nobody likes to hear it when the wound is fresh, but it's absolutely true. When you're younger, FOMO is much stronger. As you get older, FOMO starts to get replaced with "who gives a...". With that in mind, age might matter
- saurik 4y ago
  How old do I have to become for "time heals all wounds" to work? I am 41 now, which is seemingly old for this website, but figure it might take another decade or two for that one to make sense? (How old are you?) In my so-far-limited experience, it isn't time that heals wounds, but active shifts in perspective (which of course require some time to happen but it isn't like time is doing it: I have many "wounds" that hurt just as much now as they did 20 years ago, because I have not been able to obtain any kind of closure and the thing that happened didn't retroactively change or anything... at best I just try to ignore it, but that was my same strategy right after stuff happened ;P).
- rexpop 4y ago
  Some wounds, emotional as well as physical, far from healing actually leave chronic and debilitating scars. The aphorism is far from "absolutely true."
- themitigating 4y ago
  Just to note, as middle aged person, the "who gives a .." might not be from a deeper wisdom due to age but cynicism.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    maybe true. but for me personally, i just realized that the constant comparison of what i have vs what other people have is just dumb. as long as what i have makes me happy and the pursuit of those things isn't causing me to make bad decisions about other things, then i'm okay with it. it might be why i'm so sickened by all the ad tech as ultimately it's keying in on people's FOMO. it might sound embarrassing to admit, but it was actually watching Fight Club and the scene animating the Ikea catalog and the accompanying monologue (and overall theme of the movie/book) really got me thinking about it. i was mid-20s when that came out, and it definitely planted a seed. people do remind me of that when i mention making soap!
haswell 4y ago
Age can have a lot to do with it, depending on your path through life. The adage is generally that wisdom comes with age, and there are some things in life that are difficult to internalize until you’ve gone though the experience. To me, it’s just another way of saying “the more life experience I gain…”.
- simplotek 4y ago
  > To me, it’s just another of saying “the more life experience I gain…”. I believe that if you never were in a position where your job was a soul-crushig source of misery and despair, you've been lucky to live a sheltered life. Most people don't have the privilege of picking and choosing outstanding jobs with decent work/life balance, nice colleagues, reasonable deadlines and considerate stakeholders. Most people have rent/mortgage to pay, kids to feed, and unfavourable odds of improving their life with low risk and impact on your life. I'm sure they gained a lot of life experience too.
  - haswell 4y ago
    Yes, everyone experiences life differently, and the sum total of those experiences covers a wide spectrum. Personally, I’ve been on both sides of this conversation. Grew up dirt poor, started working as a teen to help my family make ends meet, and dreamed of a “better” life where the work I did mattered to me and the money I made would be sufficient to not constantly wonder where the next meal comes from. A constant source of that soul crushing misery and despair. Later in life, I was fortunate enough to experience the lifestyle afforded by a Silicon Valley salary after working my ass off to get there, an “arrival” of sorts. Younger me had no ability to comprehend how/why this high paying job would make me more deeply unhappy than I’d ever been in my life. Life experience is contextual and relative, but important nonetheless.
  - xvilka 4y ago
    > Most people have rent/mortgage to pay, kids to feed, and unfavourable odds of improving their life with low risk and impact on your life. I would go further - majority of people on this planet live painful and miserable life.
justatdotin 4y ago
I think the thing about aging is that you have less energy, so you're less likely to make energetic mistakes, and more likely to take some calm moments to think things thru. also, if you have moderate ambitions and desires, with time you may reach a point where you've met them. Then you are less focused on those for happiness. so I do think age has something to do with it
anonreeeeplor 4y ago
Yes. I quit and then asked: “what if I stayed and do I regret leaving” on my last 4 companies. Universally the answer is no I don’t regret it. One imploded and laid off like 60% of people after turning into a nasty political hell hole. Another laid off massively and is now world renowned as a failed story. Another gave me zero opportunities and everyone was yelling at each other all the time. Believe me, I tried to enter my internal universe and be happy not learning and not growing. Being bored to death and underutilized if you feel highly talented and creative is a form of death. Op needs to answer: What has he done in his life? Built a unicorn and IPOd it? Jet skiing with super models? Inventing cures for diseases? Or did he sort of sit in a cubicle typing and reading Reddit for the last five years. A lot of those on here, I don’t listen to their input on what successs is. I will never be happy until I am climbing to the highest potential I can get to. No one is going to talk me into being otherwise.
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- bumby 4y ago
  “No one is going to talk me into…” is shorthand for “I’m not open to any other ideas that don’t align with my preconceived notions.” It’s not terribly productive on a site whose guidelines try to foster an open and curious conversation.
  - lapcat 4y ago
    It's supposed to be about intellectual curiosity. Not questioning other people's life choices and giving unsolicited advice.
    - bumby 4y ago
      It's a little odd to me that you would seem to expect an article and discussion on something subject like "happiness" not to have personal accounts of their subjective experience.
bumby 4y ago
>What does age have to do with it? I don’t want to speak for the OP, but I think they’re using age as a proxy for “I’ve seen this same pattern enough times to…”
- lapcat 4y ago
  Enough times to... make a vast overgeneralization about human nature based on personally experienced anecdotal data. Also, there's no evidence that the OP is older than, say, me, which is why citing age is largely irrelevant.
  - bumby 4y ago
    If it wasn’t clear enough from my post, I’m implying you are reading too much into the literal meaning of the age part of the comment. As the HN guidelines say, we should be trying to take the most generous interpretation possible.
    - lapcat 4y ago
      > I’m implying you are reading too much into the literal meaning of the age part of the comment. I'm not. In fact my previous comment would still be valid if the line "What does age have to do with it?" were omitted. The important point is that the anecdotal observations do not apply universally.
      - bumby 4y ago
        >The important point is that the anecdotal observations do not apply universally. We are probably reading their comment somewhat differently. Because of the way they couched their statement as rooted in their personal experience, I assumed their were implying it was anecdotal and obviously not a generalizable, objective truth.
        lapcat 4y ago
        > I assumed their were implying it was anecdotal and obviously not a generalizable, objective truth. "I think I'm old enough now to confidently say that, yes: Happiness really does start from within."

cpsns 4y ago

> assuming that happiness is something you can find by simply changing your circumstances. Thankfully I learned years ago this doesn’t work and got past this mindset. Changing circumstances has never significantly improved things for any length of time. > Happiness really does start from within. I’ve also never had any luck with this and am increasingly convinced some people aren’t destined to be happy.

Swizec 4y ago
> I’ve also never had any luck with this and am increasingly convinced some people aren’t destined to be happy. Roughly everyone. Happiness is an unattainable construct designed to sell you more stuff and experiences. It isn’t real. Contentment, though, now that’s achievable. But it doesn’t get talked about because it doesn’t monetize well. The Oatmeal has my favorite explanation/take on this: https://theoatmeal.com/comics/unhappy https://theoatmeal.com/comics/unhappy

throwaway98797 4y ago

ahhh, i’ve had jobs that made me hate life. i’ve had jobs that didn’t feel like work. not sure if you intended by you come off defeatist. if i was again at a job that was making me sad or angry i’d: 1. list things i hate 2. list things i don’t mind 3. work to do more of 2 and less of 1 if after a year it’s still unbearable look for a different job. talented people have more options than they realize.

shrimpx 4y ago

You can certainly improve your happiness incrementally. From little things like getting shoes that fit better to things like moving to a climate that fits you better. Reducing annoyances and distractions. Yeah in the limit you can't achieve capital-H Happiness with a change in physical circumstance but I don't think that's what's at stake here.

BaseballPhysics 4y ago
Absolutely agreed!

danielmarkbruce 4y ago

At least in my experience this is nonsense. The circumstances of my work make a large difference to my happiness. I know because I've been in a number of different circumstances and my happiness has varied greatly.

themitigating 4y ago
Happy or less annoyed? I find when I was truly happy I cared less about external influences. For example, if it's hot, a person is annyoing, someone almost hits me with a car, or it my manager wants me to do something boring. So maybe what some people think are the sources of their unhappiness is actually just making their unhappiness more obvious.
- danielmarkbruce 4y ago
  I don't mean the minutiae.
bumby 4y ago
I’ve always liked the phrase “money can’t buy happiness but it can make you less miserable.” I think the main idea is that there are certain circumstances that can bias you into an unhappy state, but merely removing what makes you miserable isn’t enough to make you happy.

simplotek 4y ago

> Bluntly, every person I know who's expressed these kinds of sentiments is guilty of the same mistake: externalizing their happiness. I don't believe this take is fair or correct. FANG-like jobs are designed to depersonalize workers, compell them to work extremely long hours, force them to be constantly on and available, and basically live for the company, only to be pushed out of the company by design and get fired as disposable canon fodder at the slightest bump on the calendar. The pay might be good, but it resembles a deal with the devil. Have you ever wondered why the average tenure at some top tech companies is measured in months, and reaching a milestone like 4 or 5 years is lauded as a major achievement? I seriously doubt that so many people is just "externalizing their happiness". Sometimes it's really the job that kills you inside and does so by design, don't you think?

jefftk 4y ago
> FANG-like jobs are designed to depersonalize workers, compell them to work extremely long hours, force them to be constantly on and available, and basically live for the company, only to be pushed out of the company by design and get fired as disposable canon fodder at the slightest bump on the calendar. That mostly doesn't match my experience in two ~5y stints at a FANG: * Depersonalize: maybe; not sure what you mean by it here. * Extremely long hours: not at all. Most people worked ~45hr/wk counting ~1hr/d of lunch. I averaged a bit less than that. * Force them to be constantly on and available: no. One of my roles had an explicit oncall rotation where you were primary for about one week a quarter and secondary for another week. The other role had no oncall. When you were off no one expected you to be in contact, and several team members had configured their phones so that their work profile was completely deactivated outside of work hours. At times when I was excited enough about what I was doing that I wanted to work extra my manager pushed back hard, getting me to think about the impact on team culture. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34329670 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34329670 * Be pushed out of the company by design and get fired as disposable canon fodder at the slightest bump on the calendar: I worked closely with ~50 people and didn't see anyone fired. The people who got somewhat close to getting fired were ones who were having trouble getting things done, but in a sustained low output sort of way that was clear to everyone they worked with and not a "slight calendar bump" sort of way.

blacksqr 4y ago

> They inevitably move, only to find the new place they're in sucks, just in different ways. A recovering alcoholic friend of mine once told me this syndrome is well known in 12 step programs. They call it "doing a geographical."

EMM_386 4y ago
No matter where you go, there you are.
- cpsns 4y ago
  I hate this quote/pop advice. For some people location really, truly does matter. There are irredeemable places, and places that just don’t work for an individual. They key is knowing when it’s a problem instead of just running somewhere random and hoping it’ll fix all your issues. Personally? I feel way better in sunny, dry climates. My mood improves a ton and I legitimately feel healthier. Right now I live in the exact opposite and I don’t like it.

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betocmn 4y ago

> Happiness really does start from within. 100% - and for some people to excel in connecting with themselves, they need a calmer environment - or just more simplicity. But his sentiment reminded me right away of the book "The Quest of the Simple Life" by William James Dawson.

mancerayder 4y ago
>> Happiness really does start from within. >100% - and for some people to excel in connecting with themselves, they need a calmer environment - or just more simplicity. Now let's go full-circle for a moment: sometimes the job, or circumstances, stand in the way of this ability to find inner peace, or sometimes just think. Even standing apart in a vacation for a few weeks gives you the ability to snap out of it. It's true in my experience that sometimes, the job needs to change. The attitude expressed in one of the top comments above around happiness being within and not connected to changed circumstances is narrow, I've had this debate with friends who are high-achieving types. They argue that one should adapt and make the best of it, and often it's you and not the job. They also drink a lot.

ridgeguy 4y ago

I agree, but there may be a single change of circumstances that will open a path to something new. For example, if OP can accumulate enough $ to leave their job with at least a reasonable level of financial security, they might find that in the absence of the job's mental and physical overhead, heretofore obscured options would appear.

allisdust 4y ago

To put it in another way, if we are trying to paint a canvas white, there is always a more whiter color that we haven't yet achieved. It will continue till we realise there is no perfect white or dark. Just shades of it.

taneq 4y ago

This is a great viewpoint to foster in unhappy employees who you want to stick around. Reminds me of “Who Moved My Cheese.”

doix 4y ago

I was stuck in a loop of: wake up -> gym -> work -> pub(Wednesday and Fridays, sometimes Monday) -> TV with SO -> gaming, pretty much every week day. On weekends I'd either game all day or go surfing. I'd go on a ski holiday once a year and two other one week holidays with my SO. That was my life for years. Then I changed _everything_. Quit job, broke up with my girlfriend, sold my flat and most of my possessions, different job, became a "digital nomad". Now I'm "happy". I found a job that doesn't have all the things I hate about working. I can do sports I enjoy much more frequently, I'm not stuck in a loop where everyday is the same. I guess I agree that _one_ thing most likely won't be the key to happiness. I think the key is figuring out what makes you happy(I think a lot of people don't know) and what makes you unhappy(this is usually easier to identify). Then doing more of the things that make you happy and less of the things that make you unhappy. I'm not sure if that's what "happiness starts from within" means, but that's what worked for me. Edit: I guess being happy also depends on the definition of the word. Depending on the definition, maybe I'm not happy.

krisroadruck 4y ago

As a counter-point, I spent about 5 years pretty miserable between 3 different jobs - my complaints where the same at each organization. The profit motive was being put above all else, including employee well being, an actually high-quality service, and in some cases baseline ethics. People were constantly pressured into working more than they should, both in the short term (too many hours per week) and in the long term - vacation time that was hard or impossible to actually take. Overpromising and understaffing/tooling led to constant crunches, corner cutting, rushed low-quality deliverables, and constant fear - either that a client would be lost and blame would be placed, or that a bad client that should go would be retained to the teams detriment. Often all of this was paved over by toxic positivity. You point out the problems and they say "Look on the bright side. You are being too negative. It'll all shake out". Just pure gaslighting bullshit. After the 3rd such place, and a complete inability to effect change - I threw in the towel and started my own agency 2 years ago. From the outset I made the purpose of the company to be quality of life, not profit. Fewer clients/hours per team member, more time to execute and put out work you are proud to hang your hat on. No assholes (teammates OR clients). For the entirety of the past 2 years, including the hard bits of actually getting it off the ground and getting those first few customers, the difference has been night and day. My stress levels are the lowest they've been in years. My relationship with my wife is better. I never dread Monday, and rarely pine for Friday. Sometimes it really is the environment, and sometimes that environment is pervasive in a particular industry.

biinui 4y ago
Sorry if this is inappropriate. Are you hiring native Android+iOS developer? :)
- krisroadruck 4y ago
  Not inappropriate - but no not currently. We're a Marketing agency that also does custom WordPress dev. We're working towards diversifying a bit by also launching some internally owned monetized content sites or small software products (such as a useful paid plugin for WordPress) but that's about it at the moment.
4y ago

supportlocal4h 4y ago

These are very good points to ponder seriously. You can change your circumstances in another way. Reduce your expenses despite all the money that's coming in. Then find something important to you. It feels like it should be something altruistic. Funnel money to it. But also funnel your time and energy. Buy some property in Detroit and build a safe house there. Fly in once a month to be involved, actually forming concrete, or roofing, or whatever. Then be involved in forming the management team, and be the board chair or something. Or found an IT version of a farmer's market. Whatever that means. Design and build a cylindrical windmill that stinks, but can be installed on balconies to harvest $5 of energy per month. Then invite people who know what they're doing to teach you how to get that up to $20/month and cost only $50 to build. Refine it until you can distribute kits. Launch a wheelchair repair service. Coach a 4H club. I know recent events have made altruism look bad, but I'm not advocating... well, I guess maybe I am. I never really looked into it, so I don't know. But I know it feels kinda good to shovel a neighbor's driveway every so often.

horns4lyfe 4y ago
If you’re talking about FTX, their version of altruism was donating vast sums to political parties. I would call that more power-seeking than altruism, whatever the media calls it.

safety1st 4y ago

I'm going to go out on a limb and disagree with the idea that happiness comes from within. For two reasons: 1) it contradicts my lived experience and 2) it contradicts research. Let's start with money. I used to be poor and now I'm not anymore. I used to have all kinds of anxieties about money, surprise surprise, once I put my nose to the grind, earned more of it, and developed a healthy financial cushion, those anxieties disappeared and I became happier. My anecdote isn't the only data point, there's research out there which indicates that more money correlates with more happiness (though the effect has diminishing returns once you hit the upper middle class). There are at least three really big external factors I'm aware of which are correlated to happiness in a big way. 1. Money 2. A supportive network of family and peers 3. Health and fitness Every time we look we find that as people improve their circumstances in these areas, they report greater happiness and fulfillment in their lives. I'm not saying that striving for inner peace and all that is necessarily a waste of time. It has its benefits. But frankly I think if you want to be happy you can do a lot worse than busting your hump to sort out the three things I just mentioned. If you're broke, sick and alone, inner peace isn't really a priority. Working on those problems is.

twelve40 4y ago
I'm not op but pretty sure that he wrote that "from within" thing assuming all those things you talk about are already there. After all, we're discussing a blog post of a young bored top-earner from one of the most impressive cities in the world.

CipherThrowaway 4y ago

Hard to see how this meshes with published evidence about the role and importance of environmental and lifestyle factors in stress, well-being and burnout. If anything, getting older is strongly moving me away from your mindset. To the extent that well-being is intrinsic it seems to be more about the causal relationship to environmental factors. Some people are better at managing workload, setting boundaries, avoiding stressful situations and finding a "scene" that fits their values and abilities. I've seen these people do very well. There are plenty of people out there ready to tell you that happiness and well-being are all about attitude. But when I look at the people in my own life who have said this none of them have been particularly happy or seem to have figured things out for themselves. And it's no coincidence that some of the strongest advocates for "individual responsibility for happiness" are bad bosses and abusive spouses who have a vested interest in keeping people in bad environments. To me, stories like this one read more true to life: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34406760#34409368 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34406760#34409368.