8 ms·

If you have kids and quit while your family is used to the standard of living there is a good chance a divorce is in the cards. You will then owe 20% (pretax,

If you have kids and quit while your family is used to the standard of living there is a good chance a divorce is in the cards. You will then owe 20% (pretax, 30% post tax) of your "imputed" salary for the kid, as well as possible alimony. If you don't come up with 20% of your generous salary you git tossed in a cage, even if the kid only needs a tiny fraction of that for a decent life. For many it's impossible to step down their career without being tossed into prison, as the judge uses "imputed income" to calculate what you owe based on what you can potentially earn. That is if say you go from engineer to carpenter, you may now owe over 100% of your salary for support.

hi41 4y ago
I don’t understand the logic behind this. A man can lose his job then how can he make court ordered payments for kids and wife? And then putting the man behind bars is detrimental to society because a divorced man would be experience depression and likely lose his job. Punishing such a man is not good for society.
BizarreByte 4y ago
Tl;dr If you value your freedom to choose your own path don’t get married or have children.
- notch656c 4y ago
  In the US you owe child support even if you're raped. So it's not necessarily even a decision.
  - fsckboy 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - ryanmentor 4y ago
      Bravely coming out against... rape victims?
      - fsckboy 4y ago
        >Bravely coming out against... rape victims? your sarcasm is completely misplaced, 1) coming out against rape victims would actually be quite brave, you'd get downvoted to hell, but 2) I didn't do that. "Rape victims" who have children (women) don't pay child support, men do. OP is against all child support, in which he's wrong, but with regard to rape, a child born from a rape is entitled to child support from which men? that part of his comment actually made no sense at all
        barry-cotter 4y ago
        > When Male Rape Victims Are Accountable for Child Support > When Shane Seyer was 12, he was sexually exploited by his 16-year-old babysitter Colleen Hermesmann. She became pregnant with Seyer’s child in 1989 and was charged with statutory rape shortly afterward. Instead of being convicted of rape, Hermesmann was declared a juvenile offender under the non-sexual offense of “contributing to child misconduct.” Seyer was subsequently court-ordered to pay child support. > In 1993, at the age of 15, Seyer appealed this decision to the Kansas Supreme Court, arguing he should not be liable for these payments. He maintained that his babysitter (Hermesmann) took advantage of him sexually when he was too young to give consent. > The Kansas Supreme Court ruled against him. The judgment stated that because Seyer initially consented to the sexual encounters and never told his parents what was happening, he was responsible for supporting the child. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-trauma/201902/when-male-rape-victims-are-accountable-child-support https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-trauma...
      - mlyle 4y ago
        Holding up the ridiculous edge case that almost never happens and needs reform -- rape victims that end up as a non-custodial parent and thus owing child support -- to prevent an honest discussion of the whole issue (with more common injustices but also complexity and nuance) sucks. It doesn't help us move forward and improve the world.
        broken_mind 4y ago
        Ah yes, the thing that almost never happens but when it happens you deserved it.
    - xboxnolifes 4y ago
      I hope you misread who you're replying to.
    - fckgnad 4y ago
      The sad reality is that no one in this world is entitled to anything. Not even kids. Kids get what they get because of willful charity not entitlement. Some kids get more charity other kids get less, life is unfair. This idea that all kids are fucking angels who deserve everything is absolutely insane. Realize Hitler was a kid once too. My kids don't deserve shit. They get what they get because I'm instinctually obligated by natural selection to love them irrationally and provide charity to them so they maximize their chances of reproducing and spreading my genes.
- zshrdlu 4y ago
  That's my take-away here too.
- mantas 4y ago
  More like don't marry a psycho and maintain communication...
  - BizarreByte 4y ago
    From watching other people’s lives this seems way easier on paper than in reality. It’s a huge risk no matter what.
    - mantas 4y ago
      There're plenty of safeguards the society has developed over a long time. But if somebody heads for relationship straight from romance movies with drama all around and sex is #1 criteria... Then outcome is pretty clear.
dwiel 4y ago
Or you know, talk to your spouse about it first. I dropped down to $0 income for 2 years with two kids and a wife. My family is as strong as ever. Obviously just one data point and divorce rates are high. Do you have any data on this specific case: depressed about job, quits job to be happier, results in divorce. It seems quiet possible that given the circumstances, quitting the job might decrease the chance of divorce by helping remove so much stress from work.
- millirem 4y ago
  Thanks for sharing that data point. I'm planning to take 6-12 months off of work with 2 kids and a wife. I'm scared about the impact this could have on the relationship. But I've talked to my wife and she is supportive. Reading your comment reminded me that I'm doing this to feel better not just for myself but for the family.
- ciphol 4y ago
  If you're no longer going to be contributing income, what will you contribute instead to the family? Nobody respects or appreciates a freeloader as a partner. But if something other than money is contributed, it's more likely to work.
  - defterGoose 4y ago
    Holy God it's not like being mentally present, raising kids, or just doing chores around the house is valuable to your family. /s Such a toxic, capitalistic, misandronistic mindset.
    - bradlys 4y ago
      It’s just a realistic mindset. If you’re a man and quit working - you’re in the fast track to being broken up with. I don’t know why we act like gender norms don’t exist.
      - cpsns 4y ago
        > I don’t know why we act like gender norms don’t exist. They’re inconvenient, uncomfortable, and people want to pretend they don’t exist because there’s a one in a million exception. In the real world a man who can’t provide is going to find out almost no woman will tolerate that, even if they claim otherwise.
csomar 4y ago
I’m sorry but in this case you have a much bigger problem than “being a cog in the machine” and an “unfulfilling job”. You should never get in such a relation, or stay in one.
- busterarm 4y ago
  The stories of couples who FIRE'd together and the wife moved on from the relationship in anger/disgust 2-3 years down the road are copious...
  - throwaway4aday 4y ago
    Probably the best thing for both of them, obviously a mismatch.

hi41 4y ago

I don’t understand the logic behind this. A man can lose his job then how can he make court ordered payments for kids and wife? And then putting the man behind bars is detrimental to society because a divorced man would be experience depression and likely lose his job. Punishing such a man is not good for society.

BizarreByte 4y ago

Tl;dr If you value your freedom to choose your own path don’t get married or have children.

notch656c 4y ago
In the US you owe child support even if you're raped. So it's not necessarily even a decision.
- fsckboy 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - ryanmentor 4y ago
    Bravely coming out against... rape victims?
    - fsckboy 4y ago
      >Bravely coming out against... rape victims? your sarcasm is completely misplaced, 1) coming out against rape victims would actually be quite brave, you'd get downvoted to hell, but 2) I didn't do that. "Rape victims" who have children (women) don't pay child support, men do. OP is against all child support, in which he's wrong, but with regard to rape, a child born from a rape is entitled to child support from which men? that part of his comment actually made no sense at all
      - barry-cotter 4y ago
        > When Male Rape Victims Are Accountable for Child Support > When Shane Seyer was 12, he was sexually exploited by his 16-year-old babysitter Colleen Hermesmann. She became pregnant with Seyer’s child in 1989 and was charged with statutory rape shortly afterward. Instead of being convicted of rape, Hermesmann was declared a juvenile offender under the non-sexual offense of “contributing to child misconduct.” Seyer was subsequently court-ordered to pay child support. > In 1993, at the age of 15, Seyer appealed this decision to the Kansas Supreme Court, arguing he should not be liable for these payments. He maintained that his babysitter (Hermesmann) took advantage of him sexually when he was too young to give consent. > The Kansas Supreme Court ruled against him. The judgment stated that because Seyer initially consented to the sexual encounters and never told his parents what was happening, he was responsible for supporting the child. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-trauma/201902/when-male-rape-victims-are-accountable-child-support https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-trauma...
    - mlyle 4y ago
      Holding up the ridiculous edge case that almost never happens and needs reform -- rape victims that end up as a non-custodial parent and thus owing child support -- to prevent an honest discussion of the whole issue (with more common injustices but also complexity and nuance) sucks. It doesn't help us move forward and improve the world.
      - broken_mind 4y ago
        Ah yes, the thing that almost never happens but when it happens you deserved it.
  - xboxnolifes 4y ago
    I hope you misread who you're replying to.
  - fckgnad 4y ago
    The sad reality is that no one in this world is entitled to anything. Not even kids. Kids get what they get because of willful charity not entitlement. Some kids get more charity other kids get less, life is unfair. This idea that all kids are fucking angels who deserve everything is absolutely insane. Realize Hitler was a kid once too. My kids don't deserve shit. They get what they get because I'm instinctually obligated by natural selection to love them irrationally and provide charity to them so they maximize their chances of reproducing and spreading my genes.
zshrdlu 4y ago
That's my take-away here too.
mantas 4y ago
More like don't marry a psycho and maintain communication...
- BizarreByte 4y ago
  From watching other people’s lives this seems way easier on paper than in reality. It’s a huge risk no matter what.
  - mantas 4y ago
    There're plenty of safeguards the society has developed over a long time. But if somebody heads for relationship straight from romance movies with drama all around and sex is #1 criteria... Then outcome is pretty clear.

dwiel 4y ago

Or you know, talk to your spouse about it first. I dropped down to $0 income for 2 years with two kids and a wife. My family is as strong as ever. Obviously just one data point and divorce rates are high. Do you have any data on this specific case: depressed about job, quits job to be happier, results in divorce. It seems quiet possible that given the circumstances, quitting the job might decrease the chance of divorce by helping remove so much stress from work.

millirem 4y ago
Thanks for sharing that data point. I'm planning to take 6-12 months off of work with 2 kids and a wife. I'm scared about the impact this could have on the relationship. But I've talked to my wife and she is supportive. Reading your comment reminded me that I'm doing this to feel better not just for myself but for the family.
ciphol 4y ago
If you're no longer going to be contributing income, what will you contribute instead to the family? Nobody respects or appreciates a freeloader as a partner. But if something other than money is contributed, it's more likely to work.
- defterGoose 4y ago
  Holy God it's not like being mentally present, raising kids, or just doing chores around the house is valuable to your family. /s Such a toxic, capitalistic, misandronistic mindset.
  - bradlys 4y ago
    It’s just a realistic mindset. If you’re a man and quit working - you’re in the fast track to being broken up with. I don’t know why we act like gender norms don’t exist.
    - cpsns 4y ago
      > I don’t know why we act like gender norms don’t exist. They’re inconvenient, uncomfortable, and people want to pretend they don’t exist because there’s a one in a million exception. In the real world a man who can’t provide is going to find out almost no woman will tolerate that, even if they claim otherwise.

csomar 4y ago

I’m sorry but in this case you have a much bigger problem than “being a cog in the machine” and an “unfulfilling job”. You should never get in such a relation, or stay in one.

busterarm 4y ago
The stories of couples who FIRE'd together and the wife moved on from the relationship in anger/disgust 2-3 years down the road are copious...
- throwaway4aday 4y ago
  Probably the best thing for both of them, obviously a mismatch.