6 ms·

I might be a bit harsh, but this is a typical western le bon sauvage misunderstanding about what goes on in the wilderness. I also grew up in the mountains (of

by dvt 4y ago

I might be a bit harsh, but this is a typical western le bon sauvage misunderstanding about what goes on in the wilderness. I also grew up in the mountains (of Eastern Europe), and I equally despise the eye-rolling fakery and the hustle and bustle of modern day Los Angeles. I love camping, and I surf, and kayak, scuba dive, offroad, and explore. But I don't make the category mistake of thinking the former is somehow better than the latter. I love the outdoors, but more importantly: I respect it. In LA, I have the luxury of clean water, sewage, medicine, a decent cocktail, and, like OP, make a decent living. It's easy to decry modern society because you're not "happy" but, imo, that says more about you than it does about what you do. Don't think the mountains, or the oceans, or the deserts are an idyllic virginal untouched Eden. You're going to end up getting yourself killed like the Into the Wild guy.

itisit 4y ago
I think you're overanalyzing what is too brief of a blog post to draw any sound conclusions about the author's meaning or their character.
- fsckboy 4y ago
  > too brief of a blog post the author kept it brief by relying on cliche after cliche, telling us to make sure we watched a completely cliche video. Why do people who have a critique of society think that they're the only ones who ever thought of this stuff? can't get enough of it? here, enjoy https://youtu.be/n-sQSp5jbSQ?t=28 https://youtu.be/n-sQSp5jbSQ?t=28
  - itisit 4y ago
    > Why do people who have a critique of society think that they're the only ones who ever thought of this stuff? Where did you get that from?
    - fsckboy 4y ago
      did you need to watch the video to grasp the idea of what a rat-race is? The author thought you did, OP thought you needed "dropping out of the rat race" explained to you, meaning thta OP thought you never thought of it before.
      - itisit 4y ago
        The reader's ignorance isn't implied at all. If anything, that video is a concise, entertaining way to prime someone for the post's topic. This isn't some op-ed in the New York Times. With all due respect, maybe introspect your reaction.
        fsckboy 4y ago
        you asked where I got it from, and I explained succinctly; I think my answer was adequate and is a perfectly valid criticism. That you had a different reaction does not require introspection, nor does it require me to be wrong. i hope you don't go online just looking for agreement all the time.
  - discreteevent 4y ago
    Clichés can be true.
kashkhan 4y ago
there's a reason humans build cities. The wild is out to kill you. Pretty but deadly.
- Waterluvian 4y ago
  Not disagreeing. But someone once said it differently and it clicked for me: the wild is out to utilize you. We build cities in part to invert that status quo.
  - rrsmtz 4y ago
    Let’s not forget that society is also out to kill you and utilize you. HN commenters are near the top of the food chain, while exploited third-world workers and oppressed groups are at the bottom.
  - coldtea 4y ago
    If so, then we've failed. Nothing is built to utilize you and make you into a cog, a sucker, and sees you like a wallet, more than the city..
    - Waterluvian 4y ago
      Hm. Not in my experience. My curling club, robotics high school program, piano class, playgrounds and skating rinks and soccer fields for my kids. The incredible public schools. Leaving here would be dumb.
- coldtea 4y ago
  >there's a reason humans build cities Yes: historically, the presence of tons of people on "the wild" periphery to grow and sell them their food, so they can live off of them...
- csomar 4y ago
  The dude is trying to have his cake and eat it too. Going into the wild with his civilization made gadgets, and the assurance that he can come back. The wild without that? It’s wild. A more balanced approach is to move to the country-side and work remote. Many people do that. But I guess that wouldn’t be too novel to get Twitter and social media attention.
lettergram 4y ago
As someone who has a farm an hour from anywhere, I can attest it’s … interesting and dangerous. Imagine breaking a leg on a massive property, no roads to where you are, no cell service. What do you do? If you want to live, you crawl. If you’re strong enough, have enough will, and are lucky — you make it. Else, the coyotes eat you. Hell they might eat you anyway. Addendum: just last week I was surrounded by the local pack of wild dogs. They were hungry and I saw one circle behind me. I drew my sidearm and yelled and they ran off. The point being, I had no help. None. If they were hungry enough, it would be me or them.
- bradly 4y ago
  I live part-time on an island with no doctor and no way to the mainland besides an unreliable ferry. Most people on the island have a helicopter insurance plan for emergencies.
- Ralo 4y ago
  I live in the city, but have friends out in the mountains of BC and when we go hiking, we carry this 1 time use SOS beacon. It's registered with the government and if we hit it, they will send out a helicopter. He's used it before on another hiker who broke their leg. You should always carry a gun as well.
  - lettergram 4y ago
    Yeah I have that as well, as do the neighbors (several miles away lol). I was mostly trying to paint the picture most people don’t think about. When you’re off a common trail, no one’s there to help you
skippyboxedhero 4y ago
The same is true in London. You travel forty minutes away from where this guy works to rural areas (i.e. still in the "affluent" South-East of the UK), you will meet young people who have no qualifications, they can't leave their parent's house because property is too expensive, they live somewhere with no job market beyond working in a pub, no entertainment, there usually isn't even a supermarket...think about people living in Tower Hamlets, this is in the City, highest GDP per capita area in Europe, now imagine you earn £9/hour...how do you have kids when a 1-bed flat costs £1.2m? You aren't "racing" for anything, you are getting run over. You only get to quit the rat race once you have won, not because you have discovered some alternate way of living. 99% of people in the UK would take years of their life for the opportunity (even in other cities in the UK). Not for happiness, for the fast cars, nothing like that...to eat, to not worry, to have children, to live somewhere safe. Again, being in the race is a privilege, most people aren't racing, there is no sport...they are getting run over.
Frost1x 4y ago
I think the key here that people often desire and even fantasize about that which they don't have. A little bit of the grass is greener syndrome here as well. The lesson I think to learn is to be true to yourself and try and be objective when assessing life. I grew up in extremely rural, a very nature heavy childhood and there are parts of it I believe are fantastic. Meanwhile as I grew older, I found there were things denser populated urban centers could offer me. Every now and then I look back nostalically about how simple life was but there were a lot of tradeoffs in that context I wouldn't just get rid of now. For me the compromise is to find a moderately densely populated area with access to densely populated resources. I have most all the access to nature quiet and sanity where I live, meanwhile within a 15 minute drive I can do most everything one has access to in say LA or NYC as far as things I care about and am interested in. As with many things in life, I don't think the extremes are where happiness tends to lie, it's some compromise or mixture in between.
BaseballPhysics 4y ago
Amen to this, man. I love being in the wilderness. I love the quiet, the beauty of nature, the fresh air, the opportunity to stretch my legs and challenge my body. And I love the city. I love good food and municipal garbage collection and plowed roads and the company of friends and family within easy reach. I've often thought about buying a property closer to the Canadian Rockies (I'm close, but not as closed as I'd like), and then I remember that I'd have to maintain my own septic system, and invest in equipment to clear my own roads, and, and, and... and then I realize maybe my life ain't so bad after all. :)
Ralo 4y ago
You're absolutely correct in what you enjoy on a camping adventure is a different world than if you lived as full time mountain man. That being said, just because you move into the mountains doesn't make technology disappear. You don't need to live like the pioneers. Solar panels, windmills, generators, satellite internet, SOS beacons, filtration systems, pumps, heat exchangers, motor vehicles (pressing home made veggie oil and running diesel motors off that is not impossible) are all technologies to make it fairly comparable to city life. With an investment into some technologies, you could live fairly nice. Dropping everything with no investment and just living off the land is a fairytale dream.
fierro 4y ago
imo a good balance is having the ability to float in between those two worlds. Frequent trips into nature and time amongst modern comforts to recharge and rest.
coldtea 4y ago
There are huge swaths of country that are not "the wilderness" and are much closer to Eden than modern declining urban settings...
csomar 4y ago
Endurance test: If this guy gets into an accident in the mountains, will he call the civilization and its machines to bail him out, and give him medical attention? I do my adventures without medical insurance, looking up nearby clinics, and there is no embassy to turn to and no emergency contact. I try to be careful, but if there was an accident I’d accept this is the end of the journey.
zshrdlu 4y ago
> Don't think the mountains, or the oceans, or the deserts are an idyllic virginal untouched Eden. You're going to end up getting yourself killed like the Into the Wild guy. I don't think they're mutually exclusive. One can think of wild places as paradise while taking the necessary precautionary measures to survive there. I've camped next to a lake with hippos in it that passed a few meters from me as they strode past at sunset. A cape buffalo has done the same thing. I know what these creatures are, I know to anticipate disaster. And yet these places are still the closest thing to paradise I've ever known.
seanbarry 4y ago
Hey, author here. When I wrote this, I had no idea it was going to receive so much attention. It was immediately after a call with my boss where I committed to leaving. I have learned a valuable lesson: how important it is to be crystal clear with the words you choose and the message you convey. Reading my post now, I agree it sounds like I'm naively planning on going to live in the mountains where I'll immediately die in a storm or get eaten by a bear. I also wrote "I'm the least fulfilled I've ever been". I should have written "this is the least fulfilling work I've ever done". I am leaving an unfulfilling job, and an unfulfilling place, to move to a smaller settlement where I am a short walk from the seaside and a short drive from the mountains. I'll have a way higher quality of life, being able to do the things I love (hiking in the mountains and other general outdoor pursuits) at the cost of losing a significant amount of income. This is a trade I'm willing to make, and it reverses the decisions I've made over the last few years. This is an important learning I hoped to share with others who may be in a similar predicament. I don't have FU money, I still want to work as a software engineer and will have to very soon. The difference is that I will not trade quality of life for money, and I will try to find or create work on the terms that maximise happiness for me. These terms are different for everybody, so my solution is unique to me. The TL;DR of my original post is "don't optimise for income over quality of life".
- dvt 4y ago
  I hope I wasn't too harsh, and thanks for contextualizing your post. > The TL;DR of my original post is "don't optimise for income over quality of life". On this, we can 100% agree!
  - seanbarry 4y ago
    Not at all! You raised a valid point, I just wanted to clarify my intention. Thanks for engaging with the post.

by dvt 4y ago

itisit 4y ago

I think you're overanalyzing what is too brief of a blog post to draw any sound conclusions about the author's meaning or their character.

fsckboy 4y ago
> too brief of a blog post the author kept it brief by relying on cliche after cliche, telling us to make sure we watched a completely cliche video. Why do people who have a critique of society think that they're the only ones who ever thought of this stuff? can't get enough of it? here, enjoy https://youtu.be/n-sQSp5jbSQ?t=28 https://youtu.be/n-sQSp5jbSQ?t=28
- itisit 4y ago
  > Why do people who have a critique of society think that they're the only ones who ever thought of this stuff? Where did you get that from?
  - fsckboy 4y ago
    did you need to watch the video to grasp the idea of what a rat-race is? The author thought you did, OP thought you needed "dropping out of the rat race" explained to you, meaning thta OP thought you never thought of it before.
    - itisit 4y ago
      The reader's ignorance isn't implied at all. If anything, that video is a concise, entertaining way to prime someone for the post's topic. This isn't some op-ed in the New York Times. With all due respect, maybe introspect your reaction.
      - fsckboy 4y ago
        you asked where I got it from, and I explained succinctly; I think my answer was adequate and is a perfectly valid criticism. That you had a different reaction does not require introspection, nor does it require me to be wrong. i hope you don't go online just looking for agreement all the time.
- discreteevent 4y ago
  Clichés can be true.

kashkhan 4y ago

there's a reason humans build cities. The wild is out to kill you. Pretty but deadly.

Waterluvian 4y ago
Not disagreeing. But someone once said it differently and it clicked for me: the wild is out to utilize you. We build cities in part to invert that status quo.
- rrsmtz 4y ago
  Let’s not forget that society is also out to kill you and utilize you. HN commenters are near the top of the food chain, while exploited third-world workers and oppressed groups are at the bottom.
- coldtea 4y ago
  If so, then we've failed. Nothing is built to utilize you and make you into a cog, a sucker, and sees you like a wallet, more than the city..
  - Waterluvian 4y ago
    Hm. Not in my experience. My curling club, robotics high school program, piano class, playgrounds and skating rinks and soccer fields for my kids. The incredible public schools. Leaving here would be dumb.
coldtea 4y ago
>there's a reason humans build cities Yes: historically, the presence of tons of people on "the wild" periphery to grow and sell them their food, so they can live off of them...
csomar 4y ago
The dude is trying to have his cake and eat it too. Going into the wild with his civilization made gadgets, and the assurance that he can come back. The wild without that? It’s wild. A more balanced approach is to move to the country-side and work remote. Many people do that. But I guess that wouldn’t be too novel to get Twitter and social media attention.

lettergram 4y ago

As someone who has a farm an hour from anywhere, I can attest it’s … interesting and dangerous. Imagine breaking a leg on a massive property, no roads to where you are, no cell service. What do you do? If you want to live, you crawl. If you’re strong enough, have enough will, and are lucky — you make it. Else, the coyotes eat you. Hell they might eat you anyway. Addendum: just last week I was surrounded by the local pack of wild dogs. They were hungry and I saw one circle behind me. I drew my sidearm and yelled and they ran off. The point being, I had no help. None. If they were hungry enough, it would be me or them.

bradly 4y ago
I live part-time on an island with no doctor and no way to the mainland besides an unreliable ferry. Most people on the island have a helicopter insurance plan for emergencies.
Ralo 4y ago
I live in the city, but have friends out in the mountains of BC and when we go hiking, we carry this 1 time use SOS beacon. It's registered with the government and if we hit it, they will send out a helicopter. He's used it before on another hiker who broke their leg. You should always carry a gun as well.
- lettergram 4y ago
  Yeah I have that as well, as do the neighbors (several miles away lol). I was mostly trying to paint the picture most people don’t think about. When you’re off a common trail, no one’s there to help you

skippyboxedhero 4y ago

The same is true in London. You travel forty minutes away from where this guy works to rural areas (i.e. still in the "affluent" South-East of the UK), you will meet young people who have no qualifications, they can't leave their parent's house because property is too expensive, they live somewhere with no job market beyond working in a pub, no entertainment, there usually isn't even a supermarket...think about people living in Tower Hamlets, this is in the City, highest GDP per capita area in Europe, now imagine you earn £9/hour...how do you have kids when a 1-bed flat costs £1.2m? You aren't "racing" for anything, you are getting run over. You only get to quit the rat race once you have won, not because you have discovered some alternate way of living. 99% of people in the UK would take years of their life for the opportunity (even in other cities in the UK). Not for happiness, for the fast cars, nothing like that...to eat, to not worry, to have children, to live somewhere safe. Again, being in the race is a privilege, most people aren't racing, there is no sport...they are getting run over.

Frost1x 4y ago

I think the key here that people often desire and even fantasize about that which they don't have. A little bit of the grass is greener syndrome here as well. The lesson I think to learn is to be true to yourself and try and be objective when assessing life. I grew up in extremely rural, a very nature heavy childhood and there are parts of it I believe are fantastic. Meanwhile as I grew older, I found there were things denser populated urban centers could offer me. Every now and then I look back nostalically about how simple life was but there were a lot of tradeoffs in that context I wouldn't just get rid of now. For me the compromise is to find a moderately densely populated area with access to densely populated resources. I have most all the access to nature quiet and sanity where I live, meanwhile within a 15 minute drive I can do most everything one has access to in say LA or NYC as far as things I care about and am interested in. As with many things in life, I don't think the extremes are where happiness tends to lie, it's some compromise or mixture in between.

BaseballPhysics 4y ago

Amen to this, man. I love being in the wilderness. I love the quiet, the beauty of nature, the fresh air, the opportunity to stretch my legs and challenge my body. And I love the city. I love good food and municipal garbage collection and plowed roads and the company of friends and family within easy reach. I've often thought about buying a property closer to the Canadian Rockies (I'm close, but not as closed as I'd like), and then I remember that I'd have to maintain my own septic system, and invest in equipment to clear my own roads, and, and, and... and then I realize maybe my life ain't so bad after all. :)

Ralo 4y ago

You're absolutely correct in what you enjoy on a camping adventure is a different world than if you lived as full time mountain man. That being said, just because you move into the mountains doesn't make technology disappear. You don't need to live like the pioneers. Solar panels, windmills, generators, satellite internet, SOS beacons, filtration systems, pumps, heat exchangers, motor vehicles (pressing home made veggie oil and running diesel motors off that is not impossible) are all technologies to make it fairly comparable to city life. With an investment into some technologies, you could live fairly nice. Dropping everything with no investment and just living off the land is a fairytale dream.

fierro 4y ago

imo a good balance is having the ability to float in between those two worlds. Frequent trips into nature and time amongst modern comforts to recharge and rest.

coldtea 4y ago

There are huge swaths of country that are not "the wilderness" and are much closer to Eden than modern declining urban settings...

csomar 4y ago

Endurance test: If this guy gets into an accident in the mountains, will he call the civilization and its machines to bail him out, and give him medical attention? I do my adventures without medical insurance, looking up nearby clinics, and there is no embassy to turn to and no emergency contact. I try to be careful, but if there was an accident I’d accept this is the end of the journey.

zshrdlu 4y ago

> Don't think the mountains, or the oceans, or the deserts are an idyllic virginal untouched Eden. You're going to end up getting yourself killed like the Into the Wild guy. I don't think they're mutually exclusive. One can think of wild places as paradise while taking the necessary precautionary measures to survive there. I've camped next to a lake with hippos in it that passed a few meters from me as they strode past at sunset. A cape buffalo has done the same thing. I know what these creatures are, I know to anticipate disaster. And yet these places are still the closest thing to paradise I've ever known.

seanbarry 4y ago

Hey, author here. When I wrote this, I had no idea it was going to receive so much attention. It was immediately after a call with my boss where I committed to leaving. I have learned a valuable lesson: how important it is to be crystal clear with the words you choose and the message you convey. Reading my post now, I agree it sounds like I'm naively planning on going to live in the mountains where I'll immediately die in a storm or get eaten by a bear. I also wrote "I'm the least fulfilled I've ever been". I should have written "this is the least fulfilling work I've ever done". I am leaving an unfulfilling job, and an unfulfilling place, to move to a smaller settlement where I am a short walk from the seaside and a short drive from the mountains. I'll have a way higher quality of life, being able to do the things I love (hiking in the mountains and other general outdoor pursuits) at the cost of losing a significant amount of income. This is a trade I'm willing to make, and it reverses the decisions I've made over the last few years. This is an important learning I hoped to share with others who may be in a similar predicament. I don't have FU money, I still want to work as a software engineer and will have to very soon. The difference is that I will not trade quality of life for money, and I will try to find or create work on the terms that maximise happiness for me. These terms are different for everybody, so my solution is unique to me. The TL;DR of my original post is "don't optimise for income over quality of life".

dvt 4y ago
I hope I wasn't too harsh, and thanks for contextualizing your post. > The TL;DR of my original post is "don't optimise for income over quality of life". On this, we can 100% agree!
- seanbarry 4y ago
  Not at all! You raised a valid point, I just wanted to clarify my intention. Thanks for engaging with the post.