4 ms·

There is no possibility of ever getting close to a different galaxy. The best you can do is get away from the thick part of the galaxy we are in, and its hazard

There is no possibility of ever getting close to a different galaxy. The best you can do is get away from the thick part of the galaxy we are in, and its hazards. The jet I wrote about is one you induce to emit from a pole of the sun, for thrust. I have no idea what this other jet you mention is.

LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
That was in response to > ...boosted out of the plane of the galaxy. Which made no sense to me, because to escape the other, naturally occurring cones of radiation, emitting from different sources, only distance would matter. Just rising above the thick part of our galaxy wouldn't be enough IMO. Because it doesn't really matter if you are cought in such a cone, from one side or another, or from above or below. Because they are oriented randomly, according to the rotational axis of the object in question, which isn't aligned to some 'plane' (AFAIK). So the only way to be sure would be a much larger distance from the galactic mess, out into real emptiness. Which would open it's own can of worms. Because real emptiness doesn't protect against larger jets, coming from larger objects, like Seyfert-galaxies in active state. Edit: To further explain my model of thinking about this, while being in the plane of our galaxy, we could be protected by nebulae, dust and gas clouds, depending from where the radiation cone comes. That would be random(luck). And useless against our next nearest neighbours, if they go boom for whichever reason, and there aren't any obstacles between that, and us, which could dampen the radiation a little bit. Going up or down the galactic plane, would add just a little distance, but not enough to be safe from all the possible cones of radiation coming out of the plane. Because from 'in the plane' to above or below it, there are even less obstacles which could dampen the intensity of that. Less 'fog or dust', but still 'in range', thus easier target. But still somehow in the 'galactic bubble', exerting outwards 'pressure', maybe dampening extragalactic outbursts somewhat. I've been referring to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrophysical_jet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrophysical_jet , not your method of 'leaving the galactic plane'. So using your jet to leave the plane made no sense to me, because it doesn't really protect against the astrophysical jets, and radiation cones emitting from them. :-)
- moloch-hai 4y ago
  In the plane, there are myriad hazards that, at effectively random times, are right nearby, close enough to sterilize your whole system if they go off then. Most of them -- supernovas and magnetar outbursts -- are not jets. Off-plane, nothing gets close enough to be a hazard except, if you are extra-unlucky, a jet pointed straight at you, which could as well happen were we are now. Above the plane of the disc, only jet sources near the "top surface" (if there were one) have less dust between them and us than when we were in it. Generally, being farther away is better. Before you can get far away from your galaxy, you spend a very great deal of time near or in it. Being someplace farther from hazards during that time is better than being nearer to them. The alternative would be to blast toward the rim, staying in the thick part, and spend the whole time getting to the rim at about as much risk as when you started.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
    > ...if you are extra-unlucky, a jet pointed straight at you, which could as well happen were we are now. Yes! That's the point :-) Edit: No matter if jet or not, if something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraluminous_X-ray_source#/media/File:PIA24574-SS433-ULXray-20210709.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraluminous_X-ray_source#/me... or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-ray_burst#/media/File:Gamma-ray-burst-Mechanism.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-ray_burst#/media/File:Ga... or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blazar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blazar is pointed at us, we are toast, no matter where we are. Except for distance to origin. OTOH I don't see the danger from anything 'near' to us, going boom, when one of the poles of the rotational axis, no matter the emission mechanism, is not pointed at us. The omnidirectional stuff is just too weak. If not, we'd be toast anyways, here, or whereever else. So I'm still unconvinced by your reasoning, but thanks for trying to explain.
    - moloch-hai 4y ago
      You neglect that supernovas and magnetar events are orders of magnitude more common than these focused jet events. When one of the former occurs nearby, there is no possibility of protection. Objects that threaten it drift in and out of range at random. We have been in range of such an object many times, and just got lucky that they did not go off at those times. Dust clouds shield you from some kinds of radiation, but make others radically more harmful. Jet phenomena are commonly long-lived, and avoided by steering away from where they point. You can steer only when you are moving. AGN jets come only from supermassive black holes, and we have only one of those. The only protection is distance, and distance is achieved by going. Gamma-ray bursts we detect have all been pointed at us, but all from distant galaxies.

LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago

That was in response to > ...boosted out of the plane of the galaxy. Which made no sense to me, because to escape the other, naturally occurring cones of radiation, emitting from different sources, only distance would matter. Just rising above the thick part of our galaxy wouldn't be enough IMO. Because it doesn't really matter if you are cought in such a cone, from one side or another, or from above or below. Because they are oriented randomly, according to the rotational axis of the object in question, which isn't aligned to some 'plane' (AFAIK). So the only way to be sure would be a much larger distance from the galactic mess, out into real emptiness. Which would open it's own can of worms. Because real emptiness doesn't protect against larger jets, coming from larger objects, like Seyfert-galaxies in active state. Edit: To further explain my model of thinking about this, while being in the plane of our galaxy, we could be protected by nebulae, dust and gas clouds, depending from where the radiation cone comes. That would be random(luck). And useless against our next nearest neighbours, if they go boom for whichever reason, and there aren't any obstacles between that, and us, which could dampen the radiation a little bit. Going up or down the galactic plane, would add just a little distance, but not enough to be safe from all the possible cones of radiation coming out of the plane. Because from 'in the plane' to above or below it, there are even less obstacles which could dampen the intensity of that. Less 'fog or dust', but still 'in range', thus easier target. But still somehow in the 'galactic bubble', exerting outwards 'pressure', maybe dampening extragalactic outbursts somewhat. I've been referring to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrophysical_jet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrophysical_jet , not your method of 'leaving the galactic plane'. So using your jet to leave the plane made no sense to me, because it doesn't really protect against the astrophysical jets, and radiation cones emitting from them. :-)

moloch-hai 4y ago
In the plane, there are myriad hazards that, at effectively random times, are right nearby, close enough to sterilize your whole system if they go off then. Most of them -- supernovas and magnetar outbursts -- are not jets. Off-plane, nothing gets close enough to be a hazard except, if you are extra-unlucky, a jet pointed straight at you, which could as well happen were we are now. Above the plane of the disc, only jet sources near the "top surface" (if there were one) have less dust between them and us than when we were in it. Generally, being farther away is better. Before you can get far away from your galaxy, you spend a very great deal of time near or in it. Being someplace farther from hazards during that time is better than being nearer to them. The alternative would be to blast toward the rim, staying in the thick part, and spend the whole time getting to the rim at about as much risk as when you started.
- LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
  > ...if you are extra-unlucky, a jet pointed straight at you, which could as well happen were we are now. Yes! That's the point :-) Edit: No matter if jet or not, if something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraluminous_X-ray_source#/media/File:PIA24574-SS433-ULXray-20210709.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraluminous_X-ray_source#/me... or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-ray_burst#/media/File:Gamma-ray-burst-Mechanism.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-ray_burst#/media/File:Ga... or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blazar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blazar is pointed at us, we are toast, no matter where we are. Except for distance to origin. OTOH I don't see the danger from anything 'near' to us, going boom, when one of the poles of the rotational axis, no matter the emission mechanism, is not pointed at us. The omnidirectional stuff is just too weak. If not, we'd be toast anyways, here, or whereever else. So I'm still unconvinced by your reasoning, but thanks for trying to explain.
  - moloch-hai 4y ago
    You neglect that supernovas and magnetar events are orders of magnitude more common than these focused jet events. When one of the former occurs nearby, there is no possibility of protection. Objects that threaten it drift in and out of range at random. We have been in range of such an object many times, and just got lucky that they did not go off at those times. Dust clouds shield you from some kinds of radiation, but make others radically more harmful. Jet phenomena are commonly long-lived, and avoided by steering away from where they point. You can steer only when you are moving. AGN jets come only from supermassive black holes, and we have only one of those. The only protection is distance, and distance is achieved by going. Gamma-ray bursts we detect have all been pointed at us, but all from distant galaxies.