4 ms·

Crypto collapse: Bitcoin goes up

11 points by ourmandave 4y ago

ephbit 4y ago
> The bitcoin price is kept where the large players need it to be. The market is thin and trivially manipulable with the billions of pseudo-dollars in unbacked stablecoins on unregulated offshore exchanges. > The bitcoin price needs to be high enough so the big boys’ loans don’t get liquidated, but low enough so bagholders don’t attempt to cash out and crash the price. It’s a tightrope. Can someone explain, please? Who is meant by "big boys" and "bagholders" here? Bagholders are holders of (smalls amounts of) Bitcoin, trivial. Big boys are the folks running the shady exchanges that basically borrowed money ("loans") and bought bitcoin with that, is that right?
paulpauper 4y ago
it won't be long before it's below 16k again. probably after Gemini fails or Greyscale
lofaszvanitt 4y ago
Ride to 1 million begins :D.
- scotty79 4y ago
  Too soon. There will still be at least 3 cycles (so a decade or two) before that happens. But I think we touched the bottom this time so it probably won't get back to last week's price.
ggm 4y ago
The key point made in this article (to me at least) is that for all its apparent size, the actual dimensions of this market are way way too much subject to large actor manipulation: it's never about real world economics, except where these align with criminal intent. If it looks too good to be "true" given other circumstances, then it very probably IS too good to be true. If you have enough liquidity to play a game and secure a large financial benefit, and if you can "hide" inside a wave you created in the first place (a wave of smaller actors) then.. So ask yourself: what real world, non-fraud, non-market-manipulating reasons exist to justify this rise in value?
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 4y ago
  Madoff's clients did very well, despite real world market conditions, right up until he was arrested. Early in his career, when the market crashed, he borrowed money from family to hide his losses so that his clients would believe there were none.
DrWormarld 4y ago
[dead]
codegeek 4y ago
It astonishes me that a "thing" that has no real value except speculation and "get rich quick" schemes after more than a decade is still being sold for 20K per unit. Amazing.
- anm89 4y ago
  You should tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people in places like Argentina, Turkey, Venezuela, and Iran who rely on it This is a never endingly week argument.
  - doubleg72 4y ago
    None "rely" on a speculative cryptocurrency. Mobile phone cards are relied up as currency moreso than bitcoin. It surely doesn't lend itself to easy transfer.
- mekster 4y ago
  It astonishes me that people still don't see any value in distributed Blockchain but think it's only good as some sort of ponzi scheme. I'd like to see those people actually refute the technology being totally useless.
  - codegeek 4y ago
    Blockchain tech has/had promise but crypto is totally overtaken by swindlers and scammers and people trying to make a quick buck. Promise is just promise so far. It has done far too much damage than potential good.
crtified 4y ago
View all short term price predictions (and indeed, players) with cynicism. Even, to some degree, the linked article, insofar as it may claim to present a 'master plan' for the hows and whys of market movements. No external observer has all the pertinent info, and individuals thinking that they (or others they listen to) do reliably have that information, is the general psychological driver that moves a great deal of the money involved in these quasi-casinobanks of the fledgling crypto industry.
jron 4y ago
"We’re pretty sure the number will go back down again — if you bought in below $X, you may want to cash out while you can. You can already see bobbles in the chart where bagholders tried to cash out where they could." - Almost everyone for 10+ years.

11 points by ourmandave 4y ago

> The bitcoin price is kept where the large players need it to be. The market is thin and trivially manipulable with the billions of pseudo-dollars in unbacked stablecoins on unregulated offshore exchanges. > The bitcoin price needs to be high enough so the big boys’ loans don’t get liquidated, but low enough so bagholders don’t attempt to cash out and crash the price. It’s a tightrope. Can someone explain, please? Who is meant by "big boys" and "bagholders" here? Bagholders are holders of (smalls amounts of) Bitcoin, trivial. Big boys are the folks running the shady exchanges that basically borrowed money ("loans") and bought bitcoin with that, is that right?

paulpauper 4y ago

it won't be long before it's below 16k again. probably after Gemini fails or Greyscale

lofaszvanitt 4y ago

Ride to 1 million begins :D.

scotty79 4y ago
Too soon. There will still be at least 3 cycles (so a decade or two) before that happens. But I think we touched the bottom this time so it probably won't get back to last week's price.

ggm 4y ago

The key point made in this article (to me at least) is that for all its apparent size, the actual dimensions of this market are way way too much subject to large actor manipulation: it's never about real world economics, except where these align with criminal intent. If it looks too good to be "true" given other circumstances, then it very probably IS too good to be true. If you have enough liquidity to play a game and secure a large financial benefit, and if you can "hide" inside a wave you created in the first place (a wave of smaller actors) then.. So ask yourself: what real world, non-fraud, non-market-manipulating reasons exist to justify this rise in value?

1vuio0pswjnm7 4y ago
Madoff's clients did very well, despite real world market conditions, right up until he was arrested. Early in his career, when the market crashed, he borrowed money from family to hide his losses so that his clients would believe there were none.

DrWormarld 4y ago

[dead]

codegeek 4y ago

It astonishes me that a "thing" that has no real value except speculation and "get rich quick" schemes after more than a decade is still being sold for 20K per unit. Amazing.

anm89 4y ago
You should tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people in places like Argentina, Turkey, Venezuela, and Iran who rely on it This is a never endingly week argument.
- doubleg72 4y ago
  None "rely" on a speculative cryptocurrency. Mobile phone cards are relied up as currency moreso than bitcoin. It surely doesn't lend itself to easy transfer.
mekster 4y ago
It astonishes me that people still don't see any value in distributed Blockchain but think it's only good as some sort of ponzi scheme. I'd like to see those people actually refute the technology being totally useless.
- codegeek 4y ago
  Blockchain tech has/had promise but crypto is totally overtaken by swindlers and scammers and people trying to make a quick buck. Promise is just promise so far. It has done far too much damage than potential good.

crtified 4y ago

View all short term price predictions (and indeed, players) with cynicism. Even, to some degree, the linked article, insofar as it may claim to present a 'master plan' for the hows and whys of market movements. No external observer has all the pertinent info, and individuals thinking that they (or others they listen to) do reliably have that information, is the general psychological driver that moves a great deal of the money involved in these quasi-casinobanks of the fledgling crypto industry.

jron 4y ago

"We’re pretty sure the number will go back down again — if you bought in below $X, you may want to cash out while you can. You can already see bobbles in the chart where bagholders tried to cash out where they could." - Almost everyone for 10+ years.