5 ms·

You think Americans buying bananas from poorer countries makes those countries poorer?

by bennysonething 4y ago

morelisp 4y ago
Bananas particularly are a case where this is blindingly obvious.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- aga98mtl 4y ago
  Please elaborate. How would stopping banana cultivation help any of those countries?
  - abrichr 4y ago
    Historically it would have meant avoiding a coup of the locally elected democratic government (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic). To be fair, it's not clear whether it would have had any impact by the late 20th century.
codeulike 4y ago
It depends. In ideal conditions it wouldnt, but there's all sorts of ways that a large country like the USA (or its corporations) can keep a smaller country (and/or its poorer citizens) in poverty while trading with them, to their own advantage. e.g. Banana Replublics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic), third world debt in the 80s/90s, poor people being pushed into growing cash crops instead of food ( https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/behind-africas-famine-more-than-just-drought-famine-isnt-inevitable/2011/07/28/gIQAJCrsfI_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/behind-africas-famin...)
ramphastidae 4y ago
I recommend reading about the term Banana Republic.
krisoft 4y ago
Very much possible yes. The banana trade in particular has a sordid history. Here is one about striking workers masacred: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Massacre Or there is this Guatemalan coup d’état which was lobbied for by United Fruit Company: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27état https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27éta... So, yes. I think it might just happen that buying banana from somewhere keeps them poor. These are so well known cases that I somewhat suspect you asked the question as a softball.
- cturner 4y ago
  > I think it might just happen that buying banana from somewhere keeps them poor. What would happen if there was no market for those bananas?
  - krisoft 4y ago
    Then they don’t get masacred to force others to labour on the banana plantations, and their democraticaly elected leaders don’t get overthrown by the CIA. Maybe they find other ways to thrive, maybe not. Banan is not the only thing they could grow, and growing things is not the only way to make an economy work. This is not an abstract economy problem from a econ 101 textbook. History cannot be rolled like that back and “what-if” is not a question we can answer. What we know is that violence has been commited with the direct goal of securing said banana supply.
- bennysonething 4y ago
  Would boycotting bananas help or make it worse for people in those countries?

You think Americans buying bananas from poorer countries makes those countries poorer?

morelisp 4y ago

Bananas particularly are a case where this is blindingly obvious.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
aga98mtl 4y ago
Please elaborate. How would stopping banana cultivation help any of those countries?
- abrichr 4y ago
  Historically it would have meant avoiding a coup of the locally elected democratic government (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic). To be fair, it's not clear whether it would have had any impact by the late 20th century.

codeulike 4y ago

It depends. In ideal conditions it wouldnt, but there's all sorts of ways that a large country like the USA (or its corporations) can keep a smaller country (and/or its poorer citizens) in poverty while trading with them, to their own advantage. e.g. Banana Replublics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic), third world debt in the 80s/90s, poor people being pushed into growing cash crops instead of food ( https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/behind-africas-famine-more-than-just-drought-famine-isnt-inevitable/2011/07/28/gIQAJCrsfI_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/behind-africas-famin...)

ramphastidae 4y ago

I recommend reading about the term Banana Republic.

krisoft 4y ago

Very much possible yes. The banana trade in particular has a sordid history. Here is one about striking workers masacred: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Massacre Or there is this Guatemalan coup d’état which was lobbied for by United Fruit Company: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27état https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27éta... So, yes. I think it might just happen that buying banana from somewhere keeps them poor. These are so well known cases that I somewhat suspect you asked the question as a softball.

cturner 4y ago
> I think it might just happen that buying banana from somewhere keeps them poor. What would happen if there was no market for those bananas?
- krisoft 4y ago
  Then they don’t get masacred to force others to labour on the banana plantations, and their democraticaly elected leaders don’t get overthrown by the CIA. Maybe they find other ways to thrive, maybe not. Banan is not the only thing they could grow, and growing things is not the only way to make an economy work. This is not an abstract economy problem from a econ 101 textbook. History cannot be rolled like that back and “what-if” is not a question we can answer. What we know is that violence has been commited with the direct goal of securing said banana supply.
bennysonething 4y ago
Would boycotting bananas help or make it worse for people in those countries?