4 ms·

I doubt people are going to respond that didn't receive it, after being publicly attacked and shamed for 2 years. Now everyone wants to just act like that mass

I doubt people are going to respond that didn't receive it, after being publicly attacked and shamed for 2 years. Now everyone wants to just act like that mass psychosis never happened.

SoftTalker 4y ago
I got one shot, the J&J. Didn't want it, but was being threatened with termination at work. Have not had any boosters, and work has since dropped all their vaccine requirements.
- msandford 4y ago
  It's weird that it goes from a fireable offense to "whatever, I guess" in such a short time isn't it?
  - acdha 4y ago
    It makes more sense when you remember the stated purpose: preventing spread. Once Omicron ratcheted the spread rate up by an order of magnitude and demonstrated enough evasion that the original vaccines couldn’t plausibly prevent enough transmission, that changed from a shared model where everyone is masked & vaccinated to stop the pandemic to a more individual risk tolerance question. In the former case, having a firm policy to get vaccination rates over the critical threshold to halt spread has a reasonable justification: we literally can’t do that without you.
    - VagueMag 4y ago
      The problem is, all these mandates were instituted long after the Provincetown study, which made it clear that Delta was also exhibiting significant vaccine escape and herd immunity was impossible. Any notions of "stop the pandemic" were absurd past that point. A lot was missing from the original trials as well. No study of impact on transmission, no routine testing to detect asymptomatic cases.
    - junofan 4y ago
      Wait, I thought these vaccines weren’t supposed to prevent spread. Instead, they were supposed to keep hospitals from filling up. After all, illness severity was the primary endpoint of the clinical trials used to support marketing approval.
      - msandford 4y ago
        Plenty of senior government officials said they would stop the spread. This seemingly despite no testing of that outcome. Most vaccines are neutralizing meaning that it primes your immune system so well that you couldn't possibly get sick. It seems that these new vaccines, for whatever reason, doesn't elicit the same benefits that we're used to seeing from traditional vaccines.
        acdha 4y ago
        That last part is complicated because it’s a function of not just the vaccines but also the virus: some mutate more readily than others both by how well they tolerate mutations and how rapidly they spread (more cases = more chances to get the next big mutation). Our influenza vaccines have a similar problem because that’s also a respiratory virus which mutates frequently. Something which only spread by skin contact might, for example, be an easier target simply because it has a much slower spread and thus mutation rate — nobody gets on a bus and licks all of the other passengers!
      - acdha 4y ago
        The level of effectiveness at preventing spread wasn’t known - that’s harder to measure - and since the protective effects were so strong there wasn’t an approval delay trying to get those numbers. If memory serves, the subsequent data suggested that we could have reached herd immunity with something like 90% vaccination rates against the original strain. Delta and especially Omicron put paid to that, however, and closed any chance of most people being able to avoid infection.
        fidgewidge 4y ago
        It could have been measured during the trials. Give everyone regular PCR tests even if not symptomatic and measure viral load. If it's the same then it's reasonable to infer the vaccines are suppressing symptoms but you still get infected. Researchers did eventually do that, after the vaccines had all been approved and people forced to take them. They found there's no difference in viral load between vaccinated and unvaccinated people. So reducing symptoms is now the consensus position on what they do, but that could easily have been known from the start.
cherrycherry98 4y ago
I've been vaxxed and boosted but have accepted that we won't really know the true efficacy of any of the stuff that went on during the pandemic for decades. Any dissent from the official line was treated as heresy. Can't do any real science in that kind of environment.
johnchristopher 4y ago
Depends the circle you run in. I got some aggressive remarks just mentioning I had the shot.

I doubt people are going to respond that didn't receive it, after being publicly attacked and shamed for 2 years. Now everyone wants to just act like that mass psychosis never happened.

SoftTalker 4y ago

I got one shot, the J&J. Didn't want it, but was being threatened with termination at work. Have not had any boosters, and work has since dropped all their vaccine requirements.

msandford 4y ago
It's weird that it goes from a fireable offense to "whatever, I guess" in such a short time isn't it?
- acdha 4y ago
  It makes more sense when you remember the stated purpose: preventing spread. Once Omicron ratcheted the spread rate up by an order of magnitude and demonstrated enough evasion that the original vaccines couldn’t plausibly prevent enough transmission, that changed from a shared model where everyone is masked & vaccinated to stop the pandemic to a more individual risk tolerance question. In the former case, having a firm policy to get vaccination rates over the critical threshold to halt spread has a reasonable justification: we literally can’t do that without you.
  - VagueMag 4y ago
    The problem is, all these mandates were instituted long after the Provincetown study, which made it clear that Delta was also exhibiting significant vaccine escape and herd immunity was impossible. Any notions of "stop the pandemic" were absurd past that point. A lot was missing from the original trials as well. No study of impact on transmission, no routine testing to detect asymptomatic cases.
  - junofan 4y ago
    Wait, I thought these vaccines weren’t supposed to prevent spread. Instead, they were supposed to keep hospitals from filling up. After all, illness severity was the primary endpoint of the clinical trials used to support marketing approval.
    - msandford 4y ago
      Plenty of senior government officials said they would stop the spread. This seemingly despite no testing of that outcome. Most vaccines are neutralizing meaning that it primes your immune system so well that you couldn't possibly get sick. It seems that these new vaccines, for whatever reason, doesn't elicit the same benefits that we're used to seeing from traditional vaccines.
      - acdha 4y ago
        That last part is complicated because it’s a function of not just the vaccines but also the virus: some mutate more readily than others both by how well they tolerate mutations and how rapidly they spread (more cases = more chances to get the next big mutation). Our influenza vaccines have a similar problem because that’s also a respiratory virus which mutates frequently. Something which only spread by skin contact might, for example, be an easier target simply because it has a much slower spread and thus mutation rate — nobody gets on a bus and licks all of the other passengers!
    - acdha 4y ago
      The level of effectiveness at preventing spread wasn’t known - that’s harder to measure - and since the protective effects were so strong there wasn’t an approval delay trying to get those numbers. If memory serves, the subsequent data suggested that we could have reached herd immunity with something like 90% vaccination rates against the original strain. Delta and especially Omicron put paid to that, however, and closed any chance of most people being able to avoid infection.
      - fidgewidge 4y ago
        It could have been measured during the trials. Give everyone regular PCR tests even if not symptomatic and measure viral load. If it's the same then it's reasonable to infer the vaccines are suppressing symptoms but you still get infected. Researchers did eventually do that, after the vaccines had all been approved and people forced to take them. They found there's no difference in viral load between vaccinated and unvaccinated people. So reducing symptoms is now the consensus position on what they do, but that could easily have been known from the start.

cherrycherry98 4y ago

I've been vaxxed and boosted but have accepted that we won't really know the true efficacy of any of the stuff that went on during the pandemic for decades. Any dissent from the official line was treated as heresy. Can't do any real science in that kind of environment.

johnchristopher 4y ago

Depends the circle you run in. I got some aggressive remarks just mentioning I had the shot.