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> basic furnaces are prehistory-era tech) Which require water and air in huge quantities, and ore, none of which you have on Mars. > That's all part of the R&

> basic furnaces are prehistory-era tech) Which require water and air in huge quantities, and ore, none of which you have on Mars. > That's all part of the R&D work for off-world habitats and industrializing space. You might as well say "magic" - it would be more plausible.

6510 4y ago
One thing to remember is that our guessing how things would work out has always been laughable with [say] 5 insanely complex problems we didn't see coming for every 1 thing turning out much less complicated than anticipated. How much of what we did just the last 100 years was accurately anticipated and how much of it is down right magical? In hind sight, how complicated an idea was it really to heat water, get it to expand and do work? I think execution was hard but the idea was kinda obvious. Most stuff we build is made of stone/rocks? It seems we can dig caves, just ship the front door an we can start our usual hoarding :)
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  > How much of what we did just the last 100 years was accurately anticipated and how much of it is down right magical? How much more of what we did failed but nobody died (somebody died, but not always) because those failure happened in a hospitable environment for life? We didn't just "magically" progress, we failed 99% of the times to evolve the process until it succeeded. Now imagine launching 100 projects on Mars, most of which could lead to an explosion, and predict that 99 of them will fail (and probably explode) Would you still believe "everything's gonna be fine"? The Martian is just a good SCI-FI movie. > In hind sight, how complicated an idea was it really to heat water, get it to expand and do work? steam engine was well known 2,300 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile It took > 2,000 years to perfect it. And we have free water and oxygen on Earth but no water nor oxygen on Mars.
  - roryisok 4y ago
    > Now imagine launching 100 projects on Mars, most of which could lead to an explosion, and predict that 99 of them will fail (and probably explode) Well I'm just picking holes now, but in the Martian atmosphere is 95% CO2 - nothing will explode > Would you still believe "everything's gonna be fine"? Nobody said "everything's gonna be fine". The argument for sending people to Mars, at great peril, is that sitting _at home_ on Earth, and saying "everything's gonna be fine" is a bad idea.
    - 6510 4y ago
      It's going to be a tremendous struggle and we might not succeed. Mistakes will be made, people will die. We will have to push our abilities to the limit and beyond our known capabilities. We will learn new things (like working together) and every new answer will come with 20 new questions. This is so much our thing (perhaps culturally) that we build our entire civilization to endlessly progress or implode. I wouldn't mind living in a cave, scavenging and hunting for food but that is not what we are doing atm, I didn't choose this formula nor do I have to like it but if this is what we are doing lets do it. Some of us questioning the sanity of the project is also important. We might chose to do something else one day. Until that day we might as well be good at what we do.

6510 4y ago

One thing to remember is that our guessing how things would work out has always been laughable with [say] 5 insanely complex problems we didn't see coming for every 1 thing turning out much less complicated than anticipated. How much of what we did just the last 100 years was accurately anticipated and how much of it is down right magical? In hind sight, how complicated an idea was it really to heat water, get it to expand and do work? I think execution was hard but the idea was kinda obvious. Most stuff we build is made of stone/rocks? It seems we can dig caves, just ship the front door an we can start our usual hoarding :)

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> How much of what we did just the last 100 years was accurately anticipated and how much of it is down right magical? How much more of what we did failed but nobody died (somebody died, but not always) because those failure happened in a hospitable environment for life? We didn't just "magically" progress, we failed 99% of the times to evolve the process until it succeeded. Now imagine launching 100 projects on Mars, most of which could lead to an explosion, and predict that 99 of them will fail (and probably explode) Would you still believe "everything's gonna be fine"? The Martian is just a good SCI-FI movie. > In hind sight, how complicated an idea was it really to heat water, get it to expand and do work? steam engine was well known 2,300 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile It took > 2,000 years to perfect it. And we have free water and oxygen on Earth but no water nor oxygen on Mars.
- roryisok 4y ago
  > Now imagine launching 100 projects on Mars, most of which could lead to an explosion, and predict that 99 of them will fail (and probably explode) Well I'm just picking holes now, but in the Martian atmosphere is 95% CO2 - nothing will explode > Would you still believe "everything's gonna be fine"? Nobody said "everything's gonna be fine". The argument for sending people to Mars, at great peril, is that sitting _at home_ on Earth, and saying "everything's gonna be fine" is a bad idea.
  - 6510 4y ago
    It's going to be a tremendous struggle and we might not succeed. Mistakes will be made, people will die. We will have to push our abilities to the limit and beyond our known capabilities. We will learn new things (like working together) and every new answer will come with 20 new questions. This is so much our thing (perhaps culturally) that we build our entire civilization to endlessly progress or implode. I wouldn't mind living in a cave, scavenging and hunting for food but that is not what we are doing atm, I didn't choose this formula nor do I have to like it but if this is what we are doing lets do it. Some of us questioning the sanity of the project is also important. We might chose to do something else one day. Until that day we might as well be good at what we do.