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By this logic such a nation does not exist, as you can’t be both Islamic and secular at the same time. You can say the same about Turkey as Indonesia, it’s a se

by nawwal 4y ago

By this logic such a nation does not exist, as you can’t be both Islamic and secular at the same time. You can say the same about Turkey as Indonesia, it’s a secular nation even though the majority of its population is Muslim. I think the OP comment meant to ask about a secular democracy in a country where most people are Muslim. And in that case Turkey could be an example, even though Erdogan is fairly dictator-ish, we’ll see how their elections go this year

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> you can’t be both Islamic and secular at the same time Yes. There is a difference between an Islamic nation and a nation of Muslims.
- blhblah12345 4y ago
  Currently, there is not, as all nations of muslims are ruled by a-secular, illiberal dictators.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > all nations of muslims are ruled by a-secular, illiberal dictators This describes none of the Arab monarchies. Neither does it describe Iran, Afghanistan or Pakistan. (Indonesia and Malaysia are political science’s Rorschach tests.) Secular dictatorships in the Muslim world are the exception, unless we’re using highly unorthodox definitions of secularity or dictatorship. (Secular government in Muslim-majority countries is common; most are not dictatorships [1].) [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_secularism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_secularism
blhblah12345 4y ago
It should go without saying that you cannot have religion be part of a secular democracy. Turkiye has not been a secular nation for a very long time. Go read hurriyetdailynews.com, a moderately pro-government site. Currently the government is trying to make it illegal to be gay by attaching it to a bill that supposedly protects the rights of turbanli (covered women). The full text of the bill practically Turkiye into every other shariah nation. Also read up on "Imam hatips", which are failed religious school the government forces us to pay for. Nobody wants to go to them, because the educational quality is garbage, so they actually started forcing students to go to them. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk's democracy could have been the most inspiring democracy the world has known, but the democracy itself died within 10 years of him. I think we're on our 6th constitution since then. During the 2 year "state of emergency" after the coup, he rewrote the entire constitution. Currently there are over 250 politicians in prison from the HDP (Kurdish party), and EVERY major name in the CHP is being prosecuted, or has been convicted of "insulting the cumhuriyet" in the past 3 months.. This is the most democratic nation in the ummah. :(

by nawwal 4y ago

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> you can’t be both Islamic and secular at the same time Yes. There is a difference between an Islamic nation and a nation of Muslims.

blhblah12345 4y ago
Currently, there is not, as all nations of muslims are ruled by a-secular, illiberal dictators.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > all nations of muslims are ruled by a-secular, illiberal dictators This describes none of the Arab monarchies. Neither does it describe Iran, Afghanistan or Pakistan. (Indonesia and Malaysia are political science’s Rorschach tests.) Secular dictatorships in the Muslim world are the exception, unless we’re using highly unorthodox definitions of secularity or dictatorship. (Secular government in Muslim-majority countries is common; most are not dictatorships [1].) [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_secularism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_secularism

blhblah12345 4y ago

It should go without saying that you cannot have religion be part of a secular democracy. Turkiye has not been a secular nation for a very long time. Go read hurriyetdailynews.com, a moderately pro-government site. Currently the government is trying to make it illegal to be gay by attaching it to a bill that supposedly protects the rights of turbanli (covered women). The full text of the bill practically Turkiye into every other shariah nation. Also read up on "Imam hatips", which are failed religious school the government forces us to pay for. Nobody wants to go to them, because the educational quality is garbage, so they actually started forcing students to go to them. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk's democracy could have been the most inspiring democracy the world has known, but the democracy itself died within 10 years of him. I think we're on our 6th constitution since then. During the 2 year "state of emergency" after the coup, he rewrote the entire constitution. Currently there are over 250 politicians in prison from the HDP (Kurdish party), and EVERY major name in the CHP is being prosecuted, or has been convicted of "insulting the cumhuriyet" in the past 3 months.. This is the most democratic nation in the ummah. :(